Indian Premier League’s Credibility Tainted
I live in the United States which is a country that has a long history of racial discrimination. Slavery was abolished in 1865 but legalized segregation lasted for more than a hundred years and ended only in 1968. During segregation minorities (mostly African-American) lived in their own separate communities, went to segregated schools and had to use bathrooms meant for African-Americans only. During most of this time black Americans were prohibited from participating in sports with other white people.
The Philadelphia Phillies is my hometown baseball team. They won the World Series in 2008 and then lost to the New York Yankees in the finals of the World Series in 2009. Baseball in many ways is similar to cricket since baseball has its origins in cricket. The Philadelphia Phillies started playing in 1883.
But it was not until 1957 that a player named John Kennedy became the first black player to play for the Phillies. Over 50% of the players on the roaster today are either black, Hispanic or from South America, Korea or the Caribbean. Even today it is hard for me to fathom that there was a time that only white people would be given tickets to watch the game and only white players would be involved.
The decision by the IPL not to allow players from Pakistan to play in the league reminded me of America’s dark past. One of the aspects of sports is to bring people together and not to create divisions. The IPL has failed miserably in this aspect and in the process not only put its own credibility and image at risk but also has created an opening for others to critize Indian society and its commitment to equal opportunity for everyone.
I was fortunate to be part of an Indian generation that was humble and knew what India’s limitations were. We wanted to learn more and were not afraid to seek it. We knew that we were far behind the West in many key parameters and had a long way to go before we can put our hands on anybody else’s shoulders. But India is a very different country today than it was in the late seventies and early eighties. There is a tremendous rise in nationalism as it is in China. But nationalism can be very blinding.
I was taken aback by the way average Indians reacted to IPL’s decision not to hire Pakistani players. Most of us have parents or grand parents who lived under the British rule. The British treated us like second class citizens in our own country. Many of us still suffer because of the rigid caste system. I assumed that experiences like these would make us very sensitive to issues regarding equality and discrimination on any basis. But I was wrong.
Indians by and large support the decision of the IPL and in fact are happy the IPL did something that the Indian government should have done. But do we understand the issues here or are we allowing raw emotions, nationalism and our feelings towards Pakistan affect the way we think about ourselves and who we are as a nation. This issue is not about Pakistan but about us. Pakistani players are the affected parties.
The IPL is a business created by the Board of Control of Cricket in India (BCCI). The Chairman of the IPL, Lalit Modi is also the Vice President of BCCI. Although a private entity BCCI is responsible for fielding and managing the Indian national cricket team since it is a member of the International Cricket Council (ICC).
During this controversy many have claimed that the BCCI and the IPL are private entities and they should be allowed to do what they want. Considering the BCCI as a strictly private entity is actually ignoring the realities on the ground. It is not BCCI versus ACB but India versus Australia. It is like saying that cricket is just another game in India. It is lot more than just a game. Many people may die based on the outcome of an India-Pakistan match. Even as private entities the BCCI and IPL should play within the framework of India’s constitution that prohibits individuals being discriminated based on their religion, caste, race or ethnicity.
Many journalists have speculated on what the IPL’s decision is based on but what does IPL Chief Lalit Modi has to say? He said that “Availability of the players was a key issue with the franchisees without doubt. There were so many players left out in the auction and each team had its own strategy. I have no reason to believe there could be any other reason”. We know that this statement is not valid because almost all of the Pakistani players were available and many of the players selected were not even close to the quality of some of the Pakistani players.
Finally one of the main reasons given by the apologists for the IPL is that Pakistani players are a security risk. Are we to assume that IPL teams that have Pakistani players are at risk more so than other teams? What is this theory based on? The Shiv Sena has issued a direct threat and has said that they will not allow Australian players to play in Mumbai but this did not prevent IPL from hiring Australian players. Even if there is a threat it is the responsibility of an organization to provide adequate security for its staff.
This decision will clearly not sit well not only with the Pakistani players but also with the Muslim population in Pakistan and in India. It will also not sit well with people like me who are very concerned about equality and fair play not only in job opportunities or sports but life in general.
If you are a follower of IPL the question I have is what type of organization are you following? It is an organization that has clearly discriminated against a certain community and a nation. Do their values match yours? As a sports enthusiast are you not concerned that this organization is not willing to put the best product on the field?
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- Why Did IPL Exclude Players from Pakistan?
Category: Sports & Entertainment
I can not understand the noise that is being made on this issue.
It is a commercial decision of those who have invested their money.
How can anyone expect them to go beyond their business interests??
Commercial interest is just an excuse for discrimination. Commercial interest says that you should put the best players on the field.
Somewhere long back I read an Iranian director who said “worst form of Censor is self censor” here in this IPL tamasha we got the taste of that.
If IPL was not willing to play Pakistanis, they should not have allowed it in the first way itself. Saying them big NO instead. But this is an insult. What if there is an Australian league and Indian players are similarly snubbed, reactions would be quite different I suppose.
Welcome Tarun and thank you for the feedback. You are right we would have cried “racism”.
Hi Tarun,
Disagree with you. The IPL is a tournament, not a governing body so there was no question of ‘it’ banning anybody.
If you are referring to the governing body, then they haven’t banned any Pak players either. The IPL governing body had no role in the selection process apart from setting up the auction. The onus was on the team owners to hire whomever they wanted, and they chose their players based on risk and returns. The fact that all the players were from Pakistan is just incidental. It might be any other country next time.
I don’t see why it should eb insulting when it’s a question of investor confidence.
Daniel,
The reasons you provide are not convincing and are not valid. They sound similar to the excuses provided by White America to keep out Black players from their sports leagues. The problems between India and Pakistan is not new. It did not prevent Pakistan from playing in India before. Where is this new found security issue coming from?
As this news broke the IPL initially claimed that they did not take Pakistani players because they were not sure if the government would issue visas. The government has refused this allegation outright. Now the IPL is pointing to security and economics as the scapegoat.
Security and economics can be brought up as an issue by anybody but that is not a acceptable reason not to provide reasonable employment. If we cannot provide security to Pakistani players then I suggest that the World Cup should be canceled and taken to a country where they can provide adequate security.
“The reasons you provide are not convincing and are not valid.”
They were good enough for our team owners when they sat down to brainstorm before the auction. Us businessmen have no interest in politics, discrimination or racism. We chose those players who were low risk & high return. That all the excluded players were Pakistanis is Pakistan’s fault, not ours. Blame their country for being a mess, not us for being good at our jobs.
“They sound similar to the excuses provided by White America to keep out Black players from their sports leagues.”
Big difference here Hari. Black players are American nationals, and America has a responsibility to include them in the mainstream, be it sports or otherwise. Excluding them is obviously discriminatory. The situation in the IPL is very different. IPL team owners have no responsibility towards any nationality, apart from the mandatory quota of Indians/foreigners per team. They don’t cater to anyone’s nationalist pride or personal feelings. It’s their money and they decide what to do with it.
You make it sound like we have some sort of duty towards Pakistan, that we have to include their players in some of our teams This is an incorrect assumption.
“The problems between India and Pakistan is not new. It did not prevent Pakistan from playing in India before. Where is this new found security issue coming from?”
Actually, political problems between India and Pakistan resulted in the IPL2 governing body officially excluding Pakistanis from the tournament, a decision that didn’t raise any hue and cry even in Pakistan since it didn’t come as much of a surprise following the events of Nov, 2008.
This new found security issue comes from the fact that, this time, the govt is refusing to arrange for security for any of the players, not just Pakistanis. In IPL1, the govt had a personal stake in the game, and took every opportunity to see it become a success. But Lalit Modi’s decision to shift the game to south Africa for Season 2 angered the higher ups, some say, resulting in a complete withdrawal of security for all players. Meaning the teams have to arrange for this themselves, and don’t want to take any undue risks with players that might cost them more.
“As this news broke the IPL initially claimed that they did not take Pakistani players because they were not sure if the government would issue visas. The government has refused this allegation outright. Now the IPL is pointing to security and economics as the scapegoat.”
The truth is that both are valid reasons that played a part in the team’s decision. First it was the visas. After IPL2 the teams weren’t even completely sure about whether they’d be allowed to bid for Pak players in IPL3. Some of them were no doubt looking at Pak players, when the visa issue compounded that problem for a short while. Just as things were settling down, security became as issue (mentioned earlier), forcing the teams to decide on safer options that would be easier on their pockets.
“Security and economics can be brought up as an issue by anybody but that is not a acceptable reason not to provide reasonable employment.”
I’ve disproved you here. Of course if you still think otherwise, feel free to contact any of the IPL offices and talk to those who made the decisions. They’d be more than happy to explain things to you. Chances are they’ll probably tell you what I just did.
“If we cannot provide security to Pakistani players then I suggest that the World Cup should be canceled and taken to a country where they can provide adequate security.”
Makes sense to me.
Your IPL press release is impressive :)
I am a businessman too. You don’t have to explain to me how business works. I do know that if I did what the IPL did in the United States than I will be flooded with discrimination law suites. It definitely would not be a smart thing to do from a business and public relations stand point.
Exclusion of Pakistani players from IPL is not Pakistan’s fault as you say but our fault. I do not care about what Pakistan is or was but I do care about how Indians and Indian companies treat everybody including people from Pakistan.
It is very interesting how you explain how the process supposedly went down. Some IPL teams were interested in Pakistani players, then there was the visa issue, then as things were settling down security became an issue and all the IPL teams did not have sufficient funds to provide adequate security. As a result they did not select any Pakistani players.
You see how problematic this argument is? I do not see how having a few Pakistani players would dramatically change the cost of security. This is an admission that the security provided by the league is influenced by the nationality of the players involved. I am hoping that IPL provides the highest level of security to its players and the paying public irrespective of who is playing. I think you should also give more credit to the Indian public. They are not as crazy or disruptive. The threat to the league from the Indian public is nothing compared to the potential threat from external forces (whether Pakistani players are playing or not).
I will admit that I like the concept of the IPL and I hope it is successful. This year the league had a wonderful opportunity to do something special. Unfortunately it came up short.
This is great. I was little upset that i can go to see the last comments in this blog so I see this comments is very excellent.
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Thank you.
“The decision by the IPL not to allow players from Pakistan to play in the league reminded me…”
“…Indians reacted to IPL’s decision not to hire Pakistani players.”
You’ve lost me here. The IPL is a tournament. A concept. It can’t have taken any decisions to bar any players.
Are you referring perhaps to the IPL governing body headed by Mr. Lalit Modi? If yes, then you need to know that they haven’t barred anyone either.
Not hiring Pak players was a decision taken by the individual team owners, and they were entirely within their rights to do so. Nothing discriminatory or racist about it. The IPL is a market, a lot like the stock market. Would a company be justified in crying racism if you didn’t buy its stock? Of course not.
Similarly, the Pakistanis have no reason to cry foul when their players aren’t selected for the IPL. The IPL is a democratic equal opportunity market, where the best players with the least risk get picked at the highest bids. It’s business, nothing else. Akin to you or I picking the stock that we feel is low risk and high return.
What the Pakistanis can do to ensure their players are picked next time around is build confidence in the team owners and international investors who’re going to spend money on them. Work towards dismantling the jihadi military complex active in their country. Stop cross border terrorism, etc.
Daniel Welcome. It is not that simple. Let us take a fast food franchise like McDonalds. If none of the McDonalds in India have a Christian employee can we argue that it is the decision of the individual franchisees and there is no discrimination going on? You said the IPL is a democratic and equal opportunity market. So why is that the players from the best team in the world are not represented? What would we feel if a say a company like IBM in the US does not hire Indians on H-1B visa but hires people from other countries who are on H-1B?
Hi Hari,
Actually, I believe it’s very simple. There’s absolutely no reason to bring race into the equation at all.
“If none of the McDonalds in India have a Christian employee can we argue that it is the decision of the individual franchisees and there is no discrimination going on?”
You’d have to look at the reasons why no Christians were hired. If hiring Christians was going to lead to possible closure of these McDonald’s outlets due to violence, etc. then yes, not hiring them is justified, on economic grounds. They would not be discriminated against because of their religion.
“You said the IPL is a democratic and equal opportunity market. So why is that the players from the best team in the world are not represented?”
An equal opportunity market means the best fit and not the best player gets selected. Just because a player is the best bowler in the world doesn’t necessarily make him a good fit for a team that already has 5 good bowlers. My point being that since the Pakistanis were absent form IPL season 2 and were doubtful for season 3, teams had already created strategies keeping their absence in mind. They saw no reason to upset that balance this year, particularly by hiring players that might lead to matches being cancelled. Again, it’s a question of strategy and economics, not race.
“What would we feel if a say a company like IBM in the US does not hire Indians on H-1B visa but hires people from other countries who are on H-1B?”
Again, you’re generalizing. You’d have to look at the reasons why IBM would do this. If those reasons are strategic and economic and not race based, then they would be justified in doing so. Discrimination on the basis of race cannot be justified, cos that’s racism. But that’s not what’s happening in the IPL; it’s just what you choose to see.
I am intimately associated with one of the IPL teams and their daily activities. I have questioned the team owners directly and can assure you that racism was not on their minds. Their only reasons were strategic and economic. I’ve listed them below:
One, they came into IPL season 3 with the notion that Pak players might not be part of the bidding pool, either because of visa problems or govt of India diktats.
Two, they had managed to build their team around the absence of Pak players well enough the previous year, and didn’t want to upset the balance too much this year.
And finally, taking into consideration the risk in including Pak players, like possible violence, change in venues, etc, they planned their team composition accordingly to exclude any Pak players and minimise risk. This is from the horses mouth. Race was not involved.
Furthermore, I have been told that all the other 7 teams followed the same rules. There was no secret meeting or directive or understanding among the teams and BCCI to not hire Pakistanis. It was 8 individual teams making the same common sense decision to not hire them. Nothing more.
We see what we want to see, particularly in the absence of facts, so I hope these facts set the record straight.
Daniel,
You are strictly seeing this issue from the corporations angle (IPL) and justifying it as any corporation would. If economic and security reasons were a concern then the Pakistani players should not be allowed to be part of the auction. But they were. Once they were part of it they why where they not selected. I am amazed that Indians still believe that security and economics played a part in this issue.
What is the security threat that targets Pakistani players alone and not Indian players or Australian players? Remember we are not playing in Pakistan but in India. Shiv Sena has banned Australian players from playing in Mumbai. The team from Hyderabad will face a lot of issues from the Telangana people. The reality is that irrespective of the nationality of the players security has to be high because IPL as an event is a high profile target.
“You are strictly seeing this issue from the corporations angle (IPL) and justifying it as any corporation would”
Please don’t hold this against me. I’m sure you agree that this is normal on my part :-)
“If economic and security reasons were a concern then the Pakistani players should not be allowed to be part of the auction. But they were.”
They were allowed to be a part of the auction because the IPL governing body had no say in how risky an investment Pak players actually were. That was left to the teams to decide.
“Once they were part of it they why where they not selected.”
All the teams were told was that there would be no security for any of their players. Put yourself in their shoes. If you had a team that already consisted of ’0′ Pak players, and knew that you had ‘n’ funds to protect them, would you go out of your way to bid for Pak players, players who were officially excluded during the previous season because of security and political issues, and who would need extra security, knowing fully well that you team might get along perfectly without them and that their presence might result in matches being canceled, leading to significant losses? I think the answer is clear, don’t you?
“I am amazed that Indians still believe that security and economics played a part in this issue.”
Ahem…do you work for an IPL team? No? Well take it from me, security and economics are the only reasons in play here. Anything else is probably an imagination and a misguided sense of international humanity at work. No offense.
“What is the security threat that targets Pakistani players alone and not Indian players or Australian players? Remember we are not playing in Pakistan but in India. Shiv Sena has banned Australian players from playing in Mumbai. The team from Hyderabad will face a lot of issues from the Telangana people. The reality is that irrespective of the nationality of the players security has to be high because IPL as an event is a high profile target.”
True, but you’re thinking of security in terms of absolutes, not in terms of relativity, which is the only way to see it if you’re the one footing the bill.
And it’s not just a threat against Pak or Oz players, but a threat against the game at large. It’s not a question of the player’s lives but what they represent, the kind of excitement or reactions they incite that matters. I’m talking about riots, pitches being dug up, loss of credibility and revenue to the teams, etc. We live in a country where people believe it’s O.K to take the law into their own hands. Many people didn’t want Pak players in IPL1. Their wish was granted in IPL2. They don’t want to see a return in IPL3, and will resort to violence to keep it that way. This is the threat apparent in hiring Pak players. It does exist to a lesser degree for Oz players. And Indian players only need minimal security.
As for Oz players, not many were picked. My theory is that there was a smaller pool to pick from this year with the Pak players costing too much (both in terms of bidding price and security) and so the teams had to resort to Oz players even though they didn’t want to, just to fill the few holes in their team make-up. I’m guessing that the teams will adopt a wait and watch approach, judge pre-match audience reactions o the Oz players and then decide whether to play or bench them. Either way, Oz players came cheaper this year, both in terms of bid prices and security costs, so I’m guessing that their absence from any of the games won’t be a huge loss to the franchises. But I could be wrong.
Daniel,
I don’t have be an insider to know what is going on. If security is an issue then IPL has no business selecting Australian players. If economics is an issue then we should have focused more on Kenya or Zimbabwe or just B level Indian players. In an long winded way you are explaining that security and economics are issues but the Australians are exempted but the Pakistanis are not. This smells of discrimination for those of us who are not in the “know”.
I think they should also Not have Australian players in IPL. If pakistan players are left out then so does Australia. and people should boycott the matches involving australia, They are the most racist country as we have found out.
Moreover IPL is privately owned franchises so the decision is there, Why do we have to have our say in everything. :) If I am running a company its upto me who to hire and who not to.
If government is not involved, if there is no criticism or oversight then a company run by a particular group will always hire from the same group/community.
How can we question the judgement of the investors. And if they are wrong–they will lose.
I think we are just over playing this news.
I think this is a case of petty politics and misguided nationalism. If there was a security concern the government or IPL should have made it clear well ahead of time to save us this national embarrasment. If such a move was planned then it should originate from the Indian govt., no private entity shoud be allowed to operate out of a country’s law. I am surprised that many Indians argue that IPL is a for-profit organization and should be left to decide on it’s own, if this were the case why are people fighting all over the world against racial discrimination in the workplace. What is different about the British having white-only facilities? or Gandhi being thrown out of the train in SA? maybe they will argue that if they allow non-whites no one else will get into first class and may imapact profitability……what a hypocrisy!
Excellent point!
Hi Santosh,
You’re confusing racial discrimination with security. White only facilities, Gandhi being thrown out of a train, etc. are all racist actions. There is no comparison to IPL3, which is about security and overall strategy. Pakistani players were not bought by team owners because it didn’t make strategic and economic sense to do so. Picking them would have meant changing a one year old team composition already on place, arranging special security measures and risking violence and changed venues at huge costs. In the face of this, excluding Pakistani players was not racism, but common sense. Why blame the market if your product isn’t good enough?
Please note that the fact that all the players were from Pakistan is only incidental. They could have been from any country that happens to have a sensitive relationship with India. Unfortunately, in this instance, it happened to be Pakistan.
Throwing Gandhi from a train did not seem like a racist action to them but clearly it looks like that to us. Right?
Similarly you think that not selecting players from Pakistan is because of economics and security and that it was a coincidence that they were all from Pakistan. Most Pakistanis and many Indians like me think that it is discrimination.
“Throwing Gandhi from a train did not seem like a racist action to them but clearly it looks like that to us. Right?”
Sigh…what does Gandhi have to do with this? That was about racism. This is about a country not being able to produce the best products and a market rejecting those products. Do you blame the country or the market?
“Similarly you think that not selecting players from Pakistan is because of economics and security and that it was a coincidence that they were all from Pakistan. Most Pakistanis and many Indians like me think that it is discrimination.”
First, it’s not about what I think, It’s about what I know. I know that not selecting players from Pakistan is because of economics and security. I actually spoke to the management of one the IPL teams yesterday and discussed your theories about discrimination with them. They were incredulous. They couldn’t believe that someone could see racism in a transparent business transaction that had noting to do with race. Like I said, we see what we want to see.
Daniel for most of human history white people did not see discrimination against others as racism because they did not consider them as equal and they saw nothing wrong with it. We who suffered think of it as racism. You are ignoring the fact that Pakistan is the world champion. They are the best product. By not selecting a Pakistani player you are ignoring the best product. So what market economics are you talking about?
I am glad you talked to the IPL and got their opinion. They said exactly what I expected them to say. But that does not mean that the people who are reservations about these decisions including me are wrong. In the first week of January, according to the IPL, the Pakistani players were part of the group eligible for the auction. Two weeks later none of them were selected in the auction. You call this a transparent business transaction?
hi Daniel,
I agree with you that it might not have made economic sense to take Pak players given the current scenario but the message IPL sent in saying that it selected the best players and no one from the world champion team was good enough was clearly discriminatory. Rememer that the English East India company’s motives in the begining were also purely “economical”? I can site so many examples where companies were held accountable though they made decisions based purely on economic and strategic interests. Most airlines few years back hired only good looking women as hostesses, many companies don’t want to hire women since they may have more issues with travel, may need more paid time off for child birth etc. if fact govt. went to the extent of holding companies accountable for women’s safety if they worked late….just some examples of double standards when companies were only looking at economic and strategic interests.
Of couse, I know that this issue is nothing compared to so many extreme cases of discrimination, racism and other problems that we face in India today. It just happens that this issue is related to cricket and makes a good media story so we can use it to address other bigger issues and define what equality in the workplace means.
Santosh,
“…the message IPL sent in saying that it selected the best players and no one from the world champion team was good enough was clearly discriminatory.”
No one said the Pak players were not good enough. Everyone knows they’re the best team in the world. We just said they were not a good fit. Being the best does not automatically make you a good fit for a particular team.
I agree that economics can be used as an excuse for racism or discrimination. All your examples point to that. But you examples are not perfect analogies:
“English East India company’s motives in the begining were also purely “economical”?”
Our motives are only economical. We have no plans to conquer or discredit Pakistan. We will gladly hire Pakistanis, like we did in the past, when it becomes economically and strategically feasible to do so. We we don’t have a responsibility to do so now. We are international businessmen, not Indo-Pak peace brokers. Some of our own foreign investors are probably Pakistanis. Do you now call this reverse-discrimination? :-)
“Most airlines few years back hired only good looking women as hostesses.”
They still do. It makes good sense.
Take it a step further. Consider a health foods company. Do you think it would be wrong for them to hire only people in good shape for sales positions and exclude fat people? Do you think fat people would have a right to sue them? Is it mandatory for a cigarette company to hire people with lung cancer for their business development teams just to prevent accusations of discrimination?
The companies in these examples are not discriminating against fat people or people with lung cancer per se. It’s just that they have an opening that requires certain characteristics – and all those who don’t meet these characteristics don’t have a right to feel slighted when they’re rejected.
In a similar fashion, the IPL teams had a list of gaps they needed filling or skills they needed at a certain price. Keep in mind that they already manged one full year without Pak players and didn’t have many openings this year or as large a budget. The Pak players who cry discrimination at being excluded are simply ignorant of how business works. No one cares about their nationality, just the risk that they represent to the revenue flow. Only their country can change that. We’re just passing through.
“many companies don’t want to hire women since they may have more issues with travel,”
You wouldn’t hire someone for a travel related job if that person didn’t like to travel, but it’s wrong to assume all women belong to that group. Many might actually like travelling.
In a similar vein, we made sure we only hired people who would fit into our team’s long term strategy. We didn’t make any assumptions or sweeping generalisations, just looked at the facts, comparing our requirements against the available candidates to see which ones were the best fit.
“may need more paid time off for child birth etc.”
Not hiring women because they might have children is dumb. Men have children too (not in the same way of course), and also need time off. But in IPL3 not all players came with the same risks. If they did, then excluding Pak players would be discrimination. As it stands, it isn’t.
Here’s another thought. If Indian players posed a similar threat to a Pakistani league, team owners of that league, Pakistani or international, would be entirely justified in excluding them. It’s their call.
Let me propose an alternate theory. Did you know that some of the IPL teams are owned in part by foreigners. What if hypothetically, some of these foreign team owners or investors were Pakistanis. Would you still call it discrimination if Pak players were excluded?
If a white person is not selected for a role of a black man in a movie audition, does he have a right to feel insulted. It’s not the selector’s fault he didn’t fit the part. It’s not his fault either, but he can’t blame the selectors. The Pakistanis in IPL3 know it’s not their fault, but they can’t blame the IPL owners for what’s happened. They can only look towards their own country, and maybe blame terrorism, etc.
Hari,
“If security is an issue then IPL has no business selecting Australian players.”
You’ve missed my point entirely. You’re thinking in absolutes, assuming that Pak and Oz players carry the same risks. They don’t.
“If economics is an issue then we should have focused more on Kenya or Zimbabwe or just B level Indian players.”
Then the tournament wouldn’t be as glamorous and we wouldn’t have the same investors or money.
“In an long winded way you are explaining that security and economics are issues but the Australians are exempted but the Pakistanis are not. This smells of discrimination for those of us who are not in the “know”.”
As I explained already, there is an element of relativity when it comes to security. Assuming that Oz and Pak players carry the same risk is an incorrect assumption.
To answer your previous comments:
“I do know that if I did what the IPL did in the United States than I will be flooded with discrimination law suites.”
Only if the players were American citizens. If the U.S launched a cricket league tomorrow and none of the teams picked Pakistani players because of a fear of loss of revenue, the Pak players wouldn’t be able to do a thing about it.
“It definitely would not be a smart thing to do from a business and public relations stand point.”
What PR standpoint. The world understands it’s a business decision. It’s only a few that cry discrimination. No one is listening to them.
“Exclusion of Pakistani players from IPL is not Pakistan’s fault as you say but our fault. I do not care about what Pakistan is or was but I do care about how Indians and Indian companies treat everybody including people from Pakistan.”
It’s entirely Pakistan’s fault. If they had not supported terrorists, we wouldn’t have had to ban them form IPL2, and would still be fielding them in IPL3.
“…You see how problematic this argument is? I do not see how having a few Pakistani players would dramatically change the cost of security. This is an admission that the security provided by the league is influenced by the nationality of the players involved.”
Firstly, the security is not provided by the league but by the team owners, some of whom haven’t broken even yet. Secondly, the security can only cover player’s health and safety, not damages resulting from violence or major changes in schedules, like cancelled matches and changed venues, etc. The teams do not have insurance for situations like these. They would simply lose revenue that’s taken months to line up.
“I am hoping that IPL provides the highest level of security to its players and the paying public irrespective of who is playing.”
We have enough cash for player security, not for city infrastructure security and more importantly, no amount of cash can ensure team credibility.
“I think you should also give more credit to the Indian public. They are not as crazy or disruptive. The threat to the league from the Indian public is nothing compared to the potential threat from external forces (whether Pakistani players are playing or not).”
True, external threats are always there, but beyond our control. As team owners, we have a responsibility to control what we can. As for the Indian public, I have lost all hope in them.
“Daniel for most of human history white people did not see discrimination against others as racism because they did not consider them as equal and they saw nothing wrong with it. We who suffered think of it as racism.”
True, but the IPL owners are not racist. If they were, they wouldn’t have hired Pak players in season 1.
” You are ignoring the fact that Pakistan is the world champion. They are the best product. By not selecting a Pakistani player you are ignoring the best product. So what market economics are you talking about?”
Sigh…as I said before, it’s not about being the best, but about being the best fit. No one is going to buy the best washing machine in the world if it’s going to sink their credibility and is out of their price range.
“In the first week of January, according to the IPL, the Pakistani players were part of the group eligible for the auction. Two weeks later none of them were selected in the auction. You call this a transparent business transaction?”
Yes, the reasons for their not being hired were plain for everyone to see. Besides, some of them can still be hired. It depends on the individual franchises.
All all you “sighs” and elaborate statements does not change the fact that security is not a valid reason. If it was then I believe that Australian players should not be playing. You are obviously coming up with reasons for justifying the inclusion of Australian players which does not wash with people like me. I could come up with similar points for the inclusion of the Pakistani players.
Hi Hari,
I think I’ve explained my points quite clearly. Why don’t you tell me which parts you didn’t get and I’ll try to be clearer.
Sound fair?
Daniel … I understand you view points very clearly.
I believe (and I know that you do not agree with it) that the security and economic reasons have to be addressed by the IPL whether Pakistani players play or not. Like I said earlier IPL has to provide the best security possible for players and the public irrespective of the nationality of the players or the coaches.
If security is really that big of an issue then making an exception for Australian players sends a wrong message when there is a direct threat issued to them by the Shiv Sena (I also know that you have your arguments for including Australian players). But these arguments will not fly well with the public in the “big picture” context. Threats can be made by anybody against a team, a player, a coach or an owner. But this should not impact who owns, operates, works or plays for the team. Because if you do there will not be an IPL.
You may or may not have inside information about the IPL. As a neutral observer watching these events unfold I did not see or feel that there was a clear and transparent logic behind the decision making (the Home Ministers statements a few days later only strengthened what some of us already felt). The Pakistani players clearly got the long end of the stick and not surprisingly most Indians are fine with the IPL decision. By doing it the IPL, unintentionally I think sent a strong message to Pakistan and added fuel to the fire.
Hari, trust me, I have no inside information about the IPL, for the very reason that there is none. Everything I’ve told you is info you can get by picking up the phone and asking the team owners yourself.
We know that including Australians poses a risk to our revenue stream. But it’s a risk worth taking. Violence against Indians in Oz can’t go on forever, the majority of Indians don’t hate Australians, the Shiv Sena can be placated, and it’s only one venue that might be affected. The risk can be contained.
But another terrorist attack in India involving Pakistan, and every IPL team in the tournamnent that fields Pak players will have to ground them and face flak for fielding them in the first place. The money spent on the Pak players would have been wasted. And every single match and venue would be at risk of cancellation and lose credibility. All team ads and merchandising involving Pak players would need to be recalled. Massive losses all round.
Plus, even without another attack, do you think the majority of the Indian population is ready cheer a Pak player, esepecially when Indi-Pak relations are so tense and Kasab’s trial is still going on? Seriously? A team including a Pak player would be shooting it’s credibility in the foot at this point.
On another note, I think what’s happening here is people are assuming we’ve devised our team strategy around player’s races, which isn’t true. It was the other way round. Team strategies were devised months in advance, and each team knew exactly the type of player and which skills they’d need for their team, and what risks they were willing to absorb. We had a checklist of criteria, which was all we were concerned with. The Oz players met these criteria. The Pak players didn’t.
Unfortunate, but not our fault. You can’t expect us to expand or change our selection process criteria just to account for racial diversity. We love diversity, but minimum standards involving credibility and risk assessment have to be met before we look at a player.
I disagree with you about your threat assessment to IPL because of the inclusion of Pakistani players.
But I thank you for providing all the feedback. I hope you continue visiting my blog as I will yours.
Been a pleasure talking to you Hari. I’ll be around.
well. you raised two issues here -
1. discrimination
2. Muslim reaction.
It is true that in any event inside any nation there should not be any discrimination based on caste, creed or color. but in some instances there must be a discrimination based on nationality. tomorrow you may argue that for the Indian Army Chief, a pakistani citizen should be considered equally qualified as indians. I hope you understand that you cannot raise the issue of “discriminitaion” here.
After Mumbai attacks most indians do not have any sympathies left for either pakistan or pakistanis and there is no hindu muslim divide here. So I feel that discriminating on the basis of nationality is justified here. If we do not feel good about ppl of one particular nation, we should not feel morally responsible to look after their well being. Nobody stops pak from starting its own cricket league. And no Indian would be willing to play in one either. Just as no Indian wants to see pakis playing inside India after being paid Indian money. And mind you in the first IPL, a paki was the most feted player so this anti-pak feeling is not visceral. It is a reaction to recent events and is in no way bigoted.
Second comes the muslim question. So I would like to ask you on what basis did you allege that majority of Indian muslims would identify with (among all ppl) pakis ? Do you have any data (or anecdotal evidence) to support it. I have not seen anybody equating pak’s exclusion to muslim exclusion. You alone are nut enough to say this.
My blunt advice to you – India has changed from the India you left in 1970-80 and you please stay with the version of India you have in your mind … do not come back and keep your nose away … jerks and nuts like you will be hardly welcome in today’s india … you are better off staying in US. Keep off !!
Welcome to my site.
The last paragraph you wrote is a clear indicator of who you are and your narrow mentality. Just because I disagree with the IPL decision you call me a jerk and nut and say that I am not welcome in India. Nice. Fortunately majority of Indians are not like you and respect my right to dissent and also understand that issues like these are not the way to find out who is a real Indian or what modern India is. If all of us have the same opinion then we do not need a democracy or elections right?
I definitely know more about India today than you do. Millions of Indians and the following individuals have also criticized the IPL decision: P. Chidambaram (Home Minister), Aamir Khan, Shah Rukh Khan and Amitabh Bachan. Should all these individuals leave India too so that you can live in harmony with your like minded friends?
You might be alright with discriminating people based on nationality in sports. But I am not. Over 20 million Indians live abroad (including Indians in Australia and people like me in the United States). We hope that these countries treat us fairly and does not discriminate against us based on our nationality. I want to extend the same courtesy to foreigners in my country too. Your argument about Pakistanis becoming Indian generals is invalid because it is against Indian law.
I did not say that Muslims in India identify with Pakistan. I meant that excluding Pakistani players under the excuse of security but at the same time including Australian players who also face security threat will not go well with the Muslim community.
I have a word of advice for you too. Stop with the name calling and empty threats. It doesn’t do anything to me. It does make you look weak and insecure.
“The wave of the future is not the conquest of the world by a single dogmatic creed but the liberation of the diverse energies of free nations and free men” – John F. Kennedy
you are certainly wrong if you feel that majority of indians would agree with you unless you feel that chidu, srk and bigB form the majority of indians … don’t know which indians you are talking about.
and most indians wouldn’t feel nice to welcome you to India after seeing your true colors. I just voiced that opinion which incensed you so much. and in case you forget, pakis cannot be welcome in India … if you identify so much with them why don’t you try to live in pak. you know too well that you will be shred apart the moment you enter pakland however much you wax eloquent about “universal brotherhood”.
let us keep our minds open but not so open that it falls apart. “universal brotherhood” is for humans not enemies of humanity. I hope your mind is not too fallen apart to understand this basic fact. Please prove me correct.
I said majority of Indians agree with me about understanding difference of opinion. I really do not worry even if 99% of Indians do not agree with my opinion. India is still my country as much as it is yours. You do not get to decide who is an Indian and who is not.
Oh gimme a break … sympathisers of terrorists please do not consider India as your home …
but i know what is going to cure you … the day one of your loved ones gets killed by one of those terrorists, you will be a u-turn convert … that day you will realize that common ppl too have human rights and maybe sympathsizing with pakis is not such a good idea.
Now I am a sympathizer of terrorists!! Wow. And in your expert opinion preventing Pakistani players from playing in India will stop terrorism. You should know that the Home Minister of India does not agree with this view.
it wont stop the terrorist from killing indians .. but at least it will deny them our own money to kill us
Many IPL franchise owners have businesses in Pakistan and there are other owners who make a lot of money in Pakistan. India’s trade with Pakistan and vice versa is worth billions of dollars.
and i did not endorse universal discrimination based on nationailty. only pak-nationality. Banglas, Lankans, Aussies, S-africans, english, kenyans, w-indies, east indies, south indies, any damn indies, danish, french, americans, all are welcome in India … to play cricket football baddie or gulli danda as they please … only pakis are not welcome …
that is all !!
And this discrimination of yours against Pakistan is supposed to make all Indians feel better?
otherwise why would I discriminate ? yes it makes me happy to deny those who say things like -
Sohail Tanvir – “Hinduon ki to zahniyat hi aisi hai”
remember this is the same tanvir who was celebrated so much in IPL-1 and I was among the ones who happily cheered for him. now after the revalation that afridi’s cousins are operatives of LeT, what do you expect Indians to feel … elation ?? do you honestly feel that in their homes they would be singing praises of India … forget feeling grateful for all the fame IPL gave them ? instead they would laugh at the gullibility of Indians who pay so much and then get killed by AK-47′s purchased from that money.
throwing them out of IPL is least to be done. these enemies of humanity deserve far more stringent punishment.
but instead let me ask you … why do you feel such a compelling need to defend the terrorists ? what next .. would you argue that not allowing the terrorists to kill indians is denial of their human rights ?? how far would you go in order to demonstrate to the world that you are a “humanists” … why only terrorists/pakis have legitimate human rights in your eyes … so much so that you enthusiastically pick arms to fight against Indians who do not feel happy at pakis playing inside their soil … and on top of that having the gall to claim that you are a true blue Indian.
what did you expect after writing all the nonsense that you wrote .. and that too after grandstanding “alternate view of India” in your blog … your alternate view is not alternate do you know that … it is being espoused by the likes of Prannoy Roy and Barkha Dutt day and night … and making so much hullah that entire world knows how much of a dignity we have denied to the respectable “ball tampering, pitch tampering” cricketers of our respetcable neighbor … so you are not alone … there are — shall I say jerks and nuts — galore in India … maybe those are the ones whose respect you want to earn.
other Indians would care two hoots about you.
You are ranting. You are calling people who disagree with you on the IPL decision as nuts, jerks and terrorist sympathizers. You have appointed yourself as the guardian of India and have made an assumption that the rest of us do not care about India. You are beginning to sound very similar to the people you rant against so much.
i am still to get a reply to my real charge …
And that is?
>> I did not say that Muslims in India identify with Pakistan. I meant that excluding Pakistani players under the excuse of security but at the same time including Australian players who also face security threat will not go well with the Muslim community.
and where did you get this notion dear “my favorite name for you” ?? what is this if not identification of muslims with pakistan ? so far whoever criticized the IPL decision was atleast sane enuff to say barely sensible things like “service to sports” … nobody said that cricket should be thought of as “service to religion” … in case you voice this the first time among the trillions and trillions of opinions floating around in the web, what shall I call you dear “my favorite name for you” fellow ??
Again … no name calling please.
forget about name calling … reply to the real charge my dear “___” (fill whatever you like). just as you charged others in your latest blogpost that ppl do not read the real issue and instead go off to a tangent .. now you are intent on proving me a name caller and not replying to the real charge.
How is pak-exclusion a disservice to Indian Muslims as opposed to “disservice to cricket” as lamented by chidu ??
and you are free to do name calling if you feel like … it really doesn’t affect my skin.
You are asking me to defend a statement that I did not make.
aha !! do we have a backtracker here … just like afridi who was smelling the ball … hanh !!
You are so funny that I threw up laughing …
I thank you for your comments and time. But I am closing this thread.