Examining Swami Ramdev’s Goals for Bharat Swabhiman
Most of us know by now that Ramkishan Alipur Yadav (known as Swami Ramdev) has started a political party. The party named Bharat Swabhiman will contest all 545 Lok Sabha seats in the next national elections. The Swami himself will not stand for elections (this stance reminds me of Sonia Gandhi and her relationship with Congress). Religious and spiritual leaders and organizations medaling in politics is nothing new in India. India’s main opposition party, the BJP would not exist without the support of RSS.
Swami Ramdev is no ordinary person. He has built a vast world wide empire based on Yoga and Ayurvedic treatments. In addition Swami Ramdev’s yoga show on Aastha TV, which is broadcast nationally, is very popular among Indians. This has provided the Swami daily access to the Indian public which none of the Indian politicians or celebrities enjoy. So his foray into politics should be taken seriously.
It is clear that there is a lot of disillusionment in India about the way India is bring run today. There is rampant corruption in politics and business and there is no sense of accountability. People want change. But individuals who feel this way cannot overlook the achievements of modern India which is now one of the fastest growing economies in the world. Millions of poor Indians are joining the rapidly growing Indian middle class.
The rapid growth in the Indian economy has given rise to two problems. One is a sense of resentment among the poor and the vulnerable. They feel that India is leaving them behind. The other is the growth in nationalism among those who are benefiting from government reforms and the economic growth of India. Bharat Swabhiman tries to appeal to these groups and those who feel that there is nothing good happening in India.
What are Bharat Swabhiman’s goals? There are high level objectives but the details are missing. Very few individuals can disagree about the high level goals of this organization but as the saying goes the devil is in the details. The website of Bharat Swabhiman Andolan lists the following 5 goals without providing any details:
100% Voting: This goal contradicts the second and third goals (nationalistic thought and boycott of foreign companies and adoption of Swadeshi). Parliamentary democracy as practiced in India today is a Western concept. It did not exist in India before the Europeans colonized the country. By insisting on 100% voting the Bharat Swabhiman is trying to strengthen a Western institution! If nationalism and the concept of Swadeshi are important then Bharat Swabhiman should have a plan to hand over the country to members of Indian royalty and going back to a feudal system.
The right not to vote is very important in a democracy. It can be a form of protest and non compliance. Should citizens be forced to vote for a party if they feel that all of them are corrupt? Let us stretch this argument a little bit. Would India be an Independent country today if the British had 100% voting law and then allowed only parties that supported British rule in India to participate in the elections? 100% voting laws violate the spirit of democracy. In the case of India which is a country of 1.1 billion people it is also not practical.
100% Nationalist Thought: First of all how do you measure what a person or an organization is “thinking”? We can measure actions. But I think I understand what Bharat Swabhiman is trying to convey. Nationalism is a hard sell in India. India has 1.1 billion human beings, at least 40 major languages and thousands of dialects and all major religious groups are well represented. Then there are the racial and cultural differences. Are we all going to agree to a single definition of “nationalism”? Highly unlikely. I wish Bharat Swabhiman listed the set of issues that an Indian should believe in to be considered nationalistic.
I am assuming that Swami Ramdev is already 100% nationalistic. But the question is can a nationalistic individual or his organization make claims of curing cancer and HIV/AIDS without supporting data? Can a nationalistic person charge fellow Indians thousands of Rupees for seeking these cures? Shouldn’t these services be offered free of charge to people in need?
Can a nationalistic person be for foreign companies and for foreign investment instead of being against it? Can a nationalistic person be homosexual and enjoy the same rights as a straight person? Can a nationalistic person be a Muslim who believes in a strong relationship with Pakistan? Can a nationalistic person oppose 100% voting? Can a nationalist Indian believe that Tamil should be the national language instead of Hindi? For those Indians who are not politically to the right or left words like nationalism is a red flag (should I say saffron flag?).
100% Boycott of Foreign Companies: India has actually tried a similar concept before under Indira Gandhi. She nationalized banks and insurance companies and asked many large foreign companies to leave the country. This socialistic swadeshi policy almost bankrupted India. In the late sixties Indian economy was larger than China. Today we are only one third of China. India would have been much better off today if it were not for the short sighted economic policies of the 70’s and 80’s.
If we boycott foreign goods and services the following might happen: The Indian cricket team might have to go to West Indies by boat to play the World Cup T20 since planes are made by Americans and Europeans, instead of watching the games live on TV or internet we have to wait for letters to come back from news reporters by ship. If we have a serious disease then we ill have to cure it based on Swami Ramdev’s Ayurveda and cannot lean on modern medicine, equipment or surgical methods.
100% Unification of Nation: Unification of the people of India is very similar to nationalism. It means different things to different people. People like Gandhi and Nehru were able to unite Indians and oppose British rule. But the very same leaders could not convince people that India should remain united and should not be partitioned. This is the beauty of democracy. We can be united on one issue and completely be opposed on another issue. I agree with Swami Ramdev that India badly needs reforms but I disagree with him on whether nationalism, swadeshi, or unification are the ways to do it!!
100% Yoga-Oriented Nation: Why should India be a 100% yoga oriented nation? Why should millions of Indians who may not believe in Yoga or believe in other philosophies like Tantra be forced to live in a yoga oriented nation? If we are to become a yoga based nation which form of yoga would we be forced to practice? Swami Ramdev teaches Pranayama. Can we practice yoga as described by Buddhist, Jain, Christian or Islamic traditions? I think that Bharat Swabhiman is promoting yoga over other Indian practices and traditions because that is their area of expertise and their source of income.
I am still wondering when I can be nationalistic Indian and oppose the imposition of yoga as a way of life and continue to use my iPhone.
Related posts:
- Swami Ramdev Establishes Political Party in India
- Ramdev Qualified to Talk About Corruption?
- Swami Nityananda: Tantric Yoga to Tantric Sex
- Nationalism in India Equals Hindu Fundamentalism
- Conspiracy in India to Diminish Muslims Economically?
Category: Culture & Religion
Atleast do some research,before writing like a pseudo-western intellectual.
Is democracy really a Western concept?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
Welcome Sumit.
Swami Ramdev’s supporters have called those who do not support his views by many different names. You have accused me of being a “pseudo-western intellectual” without supporting evidence. In addition there is nothing wrong with being a “pseudo-western intellectual”. I am not aware of any Indian law that opposes such thought.
It is funny that you have this anti-Western sentiment. Your Swami himself does business in most of the Western countries. He travels to these countries frequently and charges thousands of dollars for teaching yoga to Westerners. His organization owns an island in Scottland. So is the Baba a pseudo Western businessman?
I did not say that democracy is a Western concept. My statement was “Parliamentary democracy as practiced in India today is a Western concept. It did not exist in India before the Europeans colonized the country.” I am very interested in learning about the existence of parliamentary democracy in India before European colonization. Can you give me some examples?
Finally I found someone saying something intelligent. All other posts I read elsewhere praise SRD.
Moreover, he has not only clear conflict of interest (promote ayurved by govt and sale ayurvedic medicines) but also disastrous thoughts on projects like River linking.
Who will pay for those costly projects. They would have no choice but to print new money hence even higher inflation, or Tax more money making people even poorer.
Welcome Bharat,
I agree with you that there is a conflict of Interest. I think that the problem is that some Indians today are followers and not leaders. They do not ask tough questions before elections. They elect people and then complain about them.
Majority of people don’t even vote, and so I won’t say that people elect them. Giving people choice of 5 evils and then declare “one with highest votes are evil so people like evils” is plain wrong.
If one want to know what people want then look to parliament election results between 1989 and 1998 when the number of casted votes keep increasing and BJP keep getting stronger under influence of strong BJP led nationalism, which ended in fiasco. I feel Baba’s method of nationalism will not work because Indians are recently burnt by similar promises.
People will identify if a true leader emerge, and will demonstrate that they want him/her. And for sure he will not be talking what people should eat and how many time they should go to bathroom.
Bharat … I believe that majority of Indians have moved on from nationalistic policies of the eighties and early nineties. They are looking for moderate politicians who have some ideas that can really work. I would like to see the so-called nationalistic parties reform Hindu society first before they come up with a 5 step process to cure all of India’s ills.
Hi Hari
All these years we have shown faith behind those Politician who are no different than Britishers who ruled over our generations in past.
Now after 60 plus years of so called independence, where are we.
Our Currency value as been declined compare to rest of the world.
Our Value have eroded. We have got a rajeev’s govt which falls due to corruption of 80 Crores, now since we are least bothered and acustomed to it having millions of crores corruption charge, we are not bothered.
Who doesn’t know that our political system is the most corrupt one. One can Check various surveys conducted by independent international bodies.
We have given enough opportunity to all the 46 parties of this country. None of them have courage to speak leave aside the courage to act. In this scenario when SRD opening not only says but threatened the political system, such demotivational comment from people like you won’t be a surprise to anyone. Rather if we don’t have any negative comments against SRD , then it would be of gr8 surprise.
Now I have read ur comments that his yogic techniques are useless. This is the most funniest statement I have ever heard.
FYI, I have got Migraine, its cured now
I have got Piles (initial stages) cured now. I have got small other ailments, cured now.. all these without any medicine not even ayurvedic, but only by Yoga recommended by SRD. I need not to tell you all these. Millions of indians have benefited due to his yoga.
And its simple fact that money saved is money earned. So that way millions of people who gone crazy of him have saved money, inturn earn money.
He goes abroad as his following now crossed international border. He has been invited to world best Cancer Hospital called Anderson Hospital.
Do you know, its world record that people in scotland have done the fund raising in the record time and gifted him a island of 700 acres.
He has shown his worth to the world.
I beleive, most of us including you have shown our worth to the least number of people around us, may be upto our parents or may be only wife.
Unlike sonia he didn’t got anything out of his generations, he has earned it, that too without a single taint on his profile from his Political Rivals.
When he says that those who don’t vote, should go to jail, then he shows his unconditional love to his beloved motherland. I salute his spirit for the same comment, for which u are cursing him
Last 5 years I am into his yoga, and I have only benefitted.
I didn’t payed a single rupee to SRD. Millions like me are consider him as saviour.
Paras,
My criticism of Ramdev is not negative as you put it. I have provided clear cut reasons why he is not a good fit based on the criticism of his own stated policies like 100% voting. There are many die had supporters of him like you who are willing to overlook his weakness and short comings and give him a pass.
It may be hard for you to believe but there is no scientific evidence for the claims that Ramdev, his organizations and his supporters like you are continuously making. There is no proof that yoga can cure ailments like Piles or Migraine. If you have evidence please submit it. If not stop spreading the lies.
For his supporters he is special. He is god sent. But for politically neutral people like me his is just another millionaire businessman who now wants to grab power. He is no different than Sonia Gandhi. He wants power but not the responsibility of running the country. At least Sonia Gandhi had the guts to stand for elections.
You say “When he says that those who don’t vote, should go to jail, then he shows his unconditional love to his beloved motherland”. To me this statement does not show unconditional love for motherland. It shows that he does not understand what a democracy means. In a democracy people have the right not to vote. We cannot criminalize people who do not want to vote. If we put people who do not vote (almost half the country) in jail we will need jails in every street corner. Who will pay for these jails?
I need not to send the medical reports, u may say that is fake.
I can’t convince some one u don’t want to convince.
But in case u want medical evidences, u can browse Ramdev site and find plenty of evidences.
Now u may say all of them are fake..
Its upto you to decide what is fake and what is not.
There is Quote for you
If some one is sleeping he can be awaken, but if someone doing an act of sleeping, he or she can’t be awaken.
Also as I don’t carry my earlier ailment reports here in US. But I am upto the task of getting rid of another ailment. Wait for next six month, I can provide my all the reports of getting cured this diabetes.
Say atleast All the best wishes to me in your reply.
Paras,
If someone claims that they have a cure for a disease, it is up to them to provide the evidence. The scientific community and the proper government authorities must agree that the evidence provided is valid. Ramdev and his followers have made claims without supporting evidence. I can claim that I have the cure for cancer and can write up something on my website. But that is not evidence!
Hi Hari
I missed few lines in my previous reply.
For those poor people who can’t afford mordern treatments or medicine and got seen the light at the other end of the tunnel in the cure proposed by Yoga through Ramdevji, he may be a God send person. For that matter Ramdevji, you and me are all god send people.
He has been welcomed by all the indians be it of any religion, caste or language. This is an answer to your blod that is is polorising a specific community.
Do you know his Highest Following is not in Hindi Belt, but in Pune, MH and few pocket in Gujarat.
Also you have wrongly understood his comment of 100 % Voting, which I have tried explaining in previous reply to you. Anyways..
As I pointed out in my article many of the basic treatments offered by Ramdev (according to his website) is more expensive than the treatments offered by modern medicine. All Ramdev followers should understand that his Yoga business is a “for profit” global business enterprise. It is not a charity organization. I do not dispute that like all businesses he might be contributing some money for charity.
I am not polarizing anybody. I am just stating my viewpoint. In fact I would really like his supporters like you to persuade him to enter politics directly and stand for elections. Let the people decide.
Reg: 100 % Voting
Do u know during Voting days, we used to get holiday to cast our vote, but many of us wanted to go picnic, watch movie whole day a home, or just give some lame excuse for not casting vote.
Let me give u another reason why we should try getting 100% Voting, is
If you have lets say 50 % voting in Maharashtra, and there are 20 different parties including independent candidates fighting for one seat. Then the strong political party wud try and successful in polorising specific community, language, caste to garner votes in their favour, and then eventually won the constituency where his thoughts are supported by 10% of the people.
So in that sence if u don’t support 100% voting, u are encouraging all the above mentioned wrong doing during election time.
Democracy in the correct sence is the people’s representative chosen by people. Do u think the current lot of politicians are representative of the people when they have to use wrong way to sway specific caste religion, or language to garner votes and then the constituencty by the least margin of votes.
Now u said that half the population would sit in Jail if ramdev suceed in his motive to promote 100% voting, is the childish statement.
Tell me so far by records, how many politician or beaurocrat or industrialist have given capital punishment for wrong doing(corruptiop) in INdia.
On the contrary see in China, u wud find plenty of eg. in their history.
That way we can tout that we are the most clean political system in the world,
I don’t agree with u that 100% voting won’t be deterrent to the corrupt politicians.
It will indeed act as detterent to these corrupt politician.
You should have a better understanding of how democracies work. It is my right not to vote. The issues that you point out are not related to whether people vote or not. It is a direct reflection of our current electoral process. We have to think about who can stand for elections, how many terms he/she can serve, etc. Political reform is badly needed in India. You say that 50% voting in Maharashtra might result in a candidate who really has the support of only 10% of the people. What if 100% of the people vote? Maybe you will have a candidate with only 20% support? Is there any real difference here?
You state that “So in that sence if u don’t support 100% voting, u are encouraging all the above mentioned wrong doing during election time.” This again shows lack of understanding of the democratic system. Not voting is legal. All the other things like voter fraud, vote trading etc. are illegal and should be addressed within the framework of our laws. The innocent and those following the law should not be punished for the crimes of the few.
Do you know what the voter turnout in the previous elections was? It was about 58%. This means that about 42% of those who are eligible to vote in India in 2009 did not vote. If 100% voting was enforced, about 100 million Indian voters would be in jail after the 2009 elections. I am not being childish when I say this. I am stating the obvious. I do not want me nor my friends and family to be in jail just because they did not vote for a corrupt politician.
It should also be noted that 50% to 60% is normally the voting rate in most of the democracies in the world. In the 2008 presidential elections in the US about 63% turned out to vote. It was the highest since 1968! Yet American politics is much cleaner and less corrupt. The lesson here is that there is no correlation between 100% voting and a clean political system.
If we take middle-class as a barometer to measure success of anything then Baba is a complete failure, upto the extent that we can call him a non-sense.
Middle class actually defines what works and what not. Middle class of most of the countries accepted computer & internet even when it was performing horribly and was very costly. Middle class also accepted allopathic medicines despite facts that they have side effects and there are a lot of law suits going against pharmaceutical companies in every country in this planet. Middle class accepted cars though more than 150K people every year die through car accidents in India.
Having said that, can you explain why masses have not yet adopted yoga as cure even though it is free? In baba’s own words, “every year 700K people die of Cancer in India” and “Yoga can cure cancer”? People didn’t accept it widely in more than 2000 years and there has to be a reason for it. Can you explain that reason?
Baba is trying to sale a idea (read: Yoga as cure) which is already rejected multiple time by people over centuries before of it’s very inconsistent results, and you are assisting him. If his methods were affective, we won’t have 700K persons dying of cancer every year.
There are thousands of medicines which were claimed as “miracle” by their producers, people didn’t accept them, and producers stopped saling failed medicines. Your baba didn’t do same. Once again, Baba seems not believing in poeple’s choice just like he don’t believe in voting right (not voting responsibility).
Hi Bharat
Ur dear moderator mr Hari and you are the very few guys who don’t see cure in Yoga. SRD has no monopoly or copyright if Yoga, which has been in India much before your beloved Aelopathy originated in West.
I have mentioned my ailment to Mr Hari whihc got cured by just Yoga, not even ayurvedic medicine. To which he don’t beleive and questioned my dignity itself as if I am getting some funds from SRD.
All said and done, when u know that in india we have alternative medicine available, Our Health Minister Dr. Gulam Nabi Azad confirm that he has now separate accounted funds for Ayurveda and Colleges and its teaching.
AIIMS excepted and called up SRD for its Yoga techniques and hail his contribution to the society.
Now all the AIIMS and Health Minister himself are fools according to you and other like you, right.
Be like that for the longer time to come, as I thoroughly njoyed conversating with u guys.
This is the TRAGEDY of India. Some Corrupt, Criminal Congress Politicians does the SHOW, and would be take over by Party’s Master Spokespersons with their Sugar Coated Lies to fool the country and try to prove the world liars. After Looting the Country if this Elected Goons tries to abuse or harm the Whistle Blowers, or the one who tries to Expose or Protests, then INDIA NEEDS REVOLUTION LIKE EGYPT.
Dinesh … I think you missed the point. The title of the article is “Examining Swami Ramdev’s Goals for Bharat Swabhiman“. It is not about the Congress Party (I have written about Sonia Gandhi’s proposal for eradicating corruption. Her proposal has the same chance of success as Ramdev’s).
So do you agree with all of Ramdev’s goals and do you think that they are feasible and logical?
Sumit,
A counter question. Is Mr. Ramdev’s loyal really believe in democracy?
If you want to test it, try to put critic on any of the Bharat Swabhiman lobby controlled website, blog or portal. It won’t be passed through moderation and I am writing this after trying to put critics more than 65 times. None appeared on their pages.
They seems have no respect for freedom to express opinion and debate on others’ opinions, which is a central part of a republic (India is by constitution a Republic, not a Democracy)
Watch the following link to understand difference between Republic and Democracy, if you don’t already know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFXuGIpsdE0
While writing posts in favor of BSA, you should have said “Thank you” to Hari, because he respect and practice democratic principles unlike Baba’s gang.
Having experienced not allowing me to express my thoughts, I suspect Baba will takeaway freedom to enforce his radical ideas if he got power.
Hi Bharat
Your word selection is superb, like you said Baba’s gang.
I am amused, as I have known this word being used for dawood gang and others who know only weapons language or who has got the very good job of distributing illecit drugs like cocoaine, hashish etc. for the upliftment of the society, right bharat.
Hope u have respect to some of the people in your life, if not many..
I am not against Western civilisation or any other civilisation.But I do appreciate Indian thought and Indian value systems, which are being eroded.From time immemorial India was a society where ethics were regarded more than regulations,whereas Western civilisation is based on regulations than ethics.In India the rulers were supposed to follow Dharma-or righteousness towards it subjects.That was the ideal but everyone can never be righteous.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma
Rulers like HarishChandra,RamaChandra,Chandragupta,Vikramaditya,Shivaji all upheld the rule of Dharma.In lay mans words Dharma means understanding what is right and what is wrong,its clean conscience.
India is the land which disseminated lofty thoughts to the world.The main goal of life in an Indian society is God realisation and eternal bliss,in contrast to Western thinking which is transient material happiness.All religions which were born in India preached this idea,be it Buddhism,Hinduism,Jainism or Sikhism.The Indian society since time immemorial has researched on this subject “How to realise God?” and did numerous experiments.It came to a conclusion that different paths are suited to different people and one path cannot be forced on all people.This has made Indian society relatively open-minded than other societies which welcome all thoughts and ideas with an open arm.
Parliamentary democracy in India may be a Western import,and is fraught with corruption,bribery,and unrighteousness.Votes are traded in India by the corrupt by offering free drinks,money or threats.I would never support such form of democracy in my land atleast.This form of Western democracy is prevalent in all countries but extent of corruption may vary.I would rather appreciate if ethics is developed among people [icl capitalists and politicians] which is the root of the Indian way of thinking.
As regard proliferation of Indian Yoga and Vedanta to the West I see there is nothing wrong in it.India has disseminated its thought since long to the West.Christianity is nothing but an offshoot of Therapuetist Buddhism and local mediterranian customs.Buddhistic ideas still dominates thought in East Asia.
I am not in support of a particular Swami,but would support anyone who takes up the challenge to cure Indian society from the banes of blind Western materialism,corruption,unethical behaviour and spread lofty Indian thoughts to the world.If you take up the challenge Hari,I would support you too.
Many of us Indians have a very high opinion of our heritage and then tend to look down on the heritage of the West. The concept of associating East with ethics and Dharma and the West with regulations and materialism is not valid. These concepts are specific to individuals and not ethnicity. There are materialistic people in India just like there are individuals with ethics and Dharma in the West.
No one can come in and eradicate “Western materialism, corruption or unethical behavior” from India because that is part of who we are as human beings. We cannot ignore the fact that India has probably more rules and regulations that any other place. Can it mean that Indians have problems with ethics and we need rules to keep us on the straight and narrow?
Materialism is part of India and the thousands of temples built by rulers like Harish Chandra, Rama Chandra, Chandragupta, Vikramaditya, Shivaji and others are good examples of it. These rulers who believed and practiced Dharma had no problem emptying the state exchequer building these enormous and extremely expensive structures which in many cases bankrupted the state. Only the rulers and their families could visit these temples and 95% of the public was kept out. These rulers immersed themselves in the paintings, music and dances while ignoring real issues like caste system, poverty and illiteracy among their subjects. What kind of Dharma is this?
There is this belief that India had a great history and somehow the country has declined since then. I believe that India is going through one of its greatest periods in its history. Indian democracy has its weakness but it is far better than any Dharma based concept we had in the past. India may have had lofty ideas once upon a time but the only lofty idea I am concerned about is to make sure that the millions of Indians who belong to the lower caste, the poor, illiterate and homeless and so on get an opportunity to improve their life and living conditions. Meanwhile Dharma, Yoga, Vedanta and other concepts that are now popular with the newly affluent middle class (that has the time and the money) can wait.
NOTE: I agree with you that Buddhism greatly influenced Christianity. But modern day Buddhism itself (and for that matter the image of Buddha) has strong Greek influence.
Once again, truth with details.
Let me add something: Ok, so the practices SRD is advocating was widely used in ancient India and then disappeared. Why?
I don’t mean to say that practices are useless, but try to understand that the world has ever been changing and it is for good. Going back to ancient practices is not going to help us.
Hows about managing commutation in India the way it was 3000 years ago? It was all environment friendly and employment generating bail-gadis, right?
You are absolutely right. Going back is not going to help us. Such tactics will divide India and create more problems.
Poverty can only be removed through benevolence and good ethics.It calls for sacrifice.Sacrifice is the motto of this land.Sacrifice of own comforts for good of many.Chandragupta founder of Mauryan Empire dared to give up his throne and die out of starvation.Buddha preached Buddhism for the good of many.Swami Vivekananda didnot go for his own career for uplifting Indian masses.Netaji Subhas Bose gave up his brilliant career for freeing India.Lakhs sacrificed their lives for the freedom of India?What for did they give up their lives at tender ages?They could have led a comfortable life.They didnot get any extra benefits of freedom?How many Indians can you see doing it now?How many people care or know of all the freedom fighters who were sent to Kalapaani?All we hear of is Gandhi,Nehru gave us freedom.Is it the truth you believe.An industrialist gifts an aeroplane to his wife on her birthday while 80% of Indians dont get to eat.Is it proper conscience?Indians are looked down upon globally as poor people,while in the past it was regard as the “Golden bird”.Its economy was either 1st or 2nd in the world,which share of foreign trade upto 25% of the world.Indian values,philosophy,science,mathematics influenced the world.Its a fact that Indian society had degraded due to rigidity in the society and for that reason it was conquered time and again.But for the same reason sacrificing people stood up as reformers to instil better values in the society.What India needs now is this attitude.Sacrifice of own comforts for good of many.Atmanomokshanam Jagathitayacha.”For salvation of Self and good of many.”
If you think India is performing very well and its her best period in History I have nothing to say.Its a personal opinion and I have no right to change it.
We cannot use what happened in distant past as examples of how to cure the ills of modern India. Do we have polls about what people 2300 years ago felt about their ruler Chandragupta Maurya? In India today nobody is preventing anyone from sacrificing or giving up their lives for the sake of others. But today India is a free country. You cannot force people to sacrifice (we are not living in Chandragupta’s time anymore!!). No study has been done that proves that sacrifice will solve India’s problems. I believe that sustained economic growth will solve India’s core issues.
How do you know that Indian economy was the 1st and 2nd in the world or its economy was 25% of the world? When did this all happen? These predictions are based on unreliable data. For the past 2300 years (beginning with Alexander) India has been repeatedly invaded by the Greeks, Mongols, Turks, Arabs, Portuguese, French, and the British. History is proof that we are a nation that can be beaten and captured. We may have had the edge in certain areas like spirituality or philosophy but history clearly shows that we had major weaknesses as well.
India today is the 12th largest economy in the world. It is the second fastest growing economy in the world. This is the highest level India has achieved in “recorded history”. Indian literacy rate was 12% in 1947. Today it is 66%. Every key indicator like life expectancy, infant mortality rates and poverty are all improving compared to measurable data available.
Of course I cannot argue with someone who says that India was much better off thousands of years ago during the time of the Buddha or Chandragupta Maurya. This is strictly a theoretical argument because there is absolutely no hard data to compare. The reality is we do not even know who Chandragupta Maurya is (I am publishing an article about Chandragupta this week. I hope you read it).
Sumit,
Probably you don’t know, but your thoughts about sacrifice is a sort of communism only. Communist have been saying all the time that you have to giveaway everything for sake of nation and look what happened to USSR who’s young girls were working in Europe as sex workers for more than 60 years.
Sacrifice only do not work, and sometimes it is foolishness. What Bhagat Singh did in Jail?!? read Lenin’s revolutionary books, and their by gave hints to Britishers about what he is intending to do. Results? Lost of a few lives without any achievement for country except title of “Shahid” for themselves. A smart Bhagat Singh would have escaped from parliament after throwing bomb and fought with Britisher only soldiers.
Moreover from the industrialist’s example is seems you don’t understand cause and effect. Is a student get poor result in exam then it’s because his knowledge is bad. Changing mark-sheet to high won’t change his knowledge. Same is true for combination of Billionaires and poor. They are results of bad economic policies. Taking away money from rich and giving to poor want make system better. In stead it will make it worse, because as everyone find out that government will steal money from rich and give them, they will stop working.
True Economic freedom is only solution to economic problems of India. Your Baba talks a lot about USA, but he never mentioned 2 most important principles on which USA is built, those are “Maximum Personal Liberty” and “Free Economy”. Ironically, Baba’s plans are exactly opposite of both of them.
Its become a fashion for Indians to despise their own culture and heritage and ape the West.This is the single major problem of India.Lack of faith or shraddha in themselves.No nation can be great unless they beleive in themselves.I am awestruck to see the level of patriotism the English have.Thats their national character and they carry it to whichever land they go.Japanese are another example.After the WWII very less spies from Japan was found.They couldnot even dream of betraying their country.In India,its the usual thing to betray their country.To raise a country,arousal of nationalistic spirit is the first thing,without that no economy can grow.China’s growth and power is a result of its cultural revolution in the 1960′s.
Some imporatant facts about India.Hopefully it may help you see India in better stead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlisMg4VPo
Sumit .. Respectfully I will close this thread with this comment. India has 1.1 billion people. We cannot all have the same view point. Just because my opinions about India are different from yours I will not question your integrity, your commitment, your passion and love of India. I hope you don’t question mine or those of people who have different visions for India.
If you think that the Japanese and the British are patriotic that is fine. I think that their level of patriotism is nothing more or less than that of an Indian. After the end of WWII till today both these countries have a large amount of American troops in their soil. Although they are both large economies they rarely disagree with American foreign policy. Are these signs of brave and patriotic people? They are lap dogs of America.
I hope you visit my site often. I enjoyed debating with you on this topic.
I think it is not lack of patriotism or nationalism which is cause of problem. Actually Indians’s nationalism is more than once abused by andolans like Navnirman andolan and then BJP’s andolan.
I think it is lack of sense of personal liberty which is wide among western countries and almost extinct in India.
Read history of American revolution and you will find the whole revolution and subsequent unification of USA was founded on maximum personal liberty. Their founding fathers designed economy and constitution to protect liberty.
No one in India talks of personal liberty. India was not freed in 1947, it was just a transfer of power from Britishers to Indians. Indian leaders were not freedom fighters, they were opportunists who wrote history such a way that it looks like freedom struggle. They had no thought on how to prevent corrupt politicians from taking power.
Other countries took few years to achieve freedom, while India under Mr. Gandhi’s leadership alone took 30 years! what kind of struggle was that?!? just to inefficient. The inefficiencies continues after 1947 power transfer event.
I think you are on to something Bharat. You hear a lot about nationalism and patriotism in India today but there is not much talk about individual freedom, understanding difference of opinion or personal liberties. One group thinks they have all the answers and that the rest of us should blindly follow. If we refuse to or ask questions then we are not considered patriotic or nationalistic.
Thanks Hari.Same here.
This is a well written article by Hari.
Ramdev I feel is part of the problem rather than the solution. Going to the past only leads to fuedalism where a micro minority few enjoy the benefits and majority live as slaves. We need to build up a questioning and rational soceity not one based on blind adherence to archaich traditions, however hallowed. Ram Rajya, Vedic times and shangrila are all utopian concepts. You have rightly said we have no data.
Welcome and thank you Vasu. The phrase that you used “questioning and rational society” is important. Ramdev’s solutions to India’s problems are simplistic and not practical. His goals for India and the way to achieve it are not being challenged by the media. Anybody who does so will be labeled a Western influenced person or an India hater by his supporters.
sriman,
frankly speaking we have documents and evidences(also with radio dating of those evidences)………………….but we are patient and waiting for the right time to publish them……………and note Ram Rajya, Vedic times are not at all utopian concepts………..kindly bear patience with us……………….
May god blesss you.
Welcome,
Thank you very much for your blessings.
I appreciate your feedback. When you have the evidence please send them and I would gladly publish it. You should also send them to reputable independent organizations that can verify the evidence.
I have a request. Until you publish the evidence and until it is verified by independent organizations could you please mention in your site that the claims that are made on the site are based on data that are yet to be published or independently verified? Thank you.
May we all live lives blessed by goodness.
namaste,
it seem all of you seems to have turned blind eye and think it cant be solved.what swamiji has told is absolutely correct and its the only solution top current solution where 77% population live at rs 20 per day.
100% voting implies people should reject more corrupted.in the current senario, total voting is 54% in country.means congress is having a total vote of 13% still is in business.
so voting can elect people who are less cvorrupted.
2nd point, nationalist thought. u fools look at dictionary wat it means.it means nation comes first irrespective of state, language,releigion,caste. it can only unify all people.
3rd swadeshi means boycott of all zero-tech products that are sold in india like ITC,HUL sells atta,agarbati,notebooks and wat not.by this crores of people in rural india will get employment.
4th point is obvious we need more unified india.
5th point has more relevenace in india now where 60% people dont have access to doctors and 7 lakh crore is spend on health.yoga will cure lot of diseases.
and the accusation that u made that swamiji is making money out of yoga ia purely false.
now 11 lakh yoga teachers teach yoga free of cost to people and they will increase in future. and those who give money thay are rich and should contribute to nation. he also tells how to prepare medicines if u are not lazy u can prepare them in home.
so all ur points have proved to be wrong.
i appeal to all to wake up now atleast.
listen to [edited] Rajiv Dixit.
come forward to ague with me.
jai Hind
Welcome Sitaram,
You have joined a long list of Ramdev supporters who absolutely have no qualms about calling people names. You think all people who interpret what Ramdev says differently than what you do as “fools”. Interesting.
You say “100% voting implies people should reject more corrupted and ….. 100% voting can elect people who are less corrupted”. 100% voting means 100% voting. Ramdev has said clearly that those who do not vote will be punished. If Ramdev comes to power over 300 million eligible voters in India who do not vote will be in jail!! Also do you have any evidence that 100% voting will elect people who are less corrupt or are you just just speculating?
Nationalist thought: All Indians will tell you that they have nationalist thought. But how do you measure it? You can only measure it by actions. It is in the implementation that the problem comes. If you ask the Maoists they will tell you that they have nationalistic thoughts. Rest of us might disagree. Shiv Sena thinks they have nationalistic thoughts. People like me disagree. Ramdev and his supporters think that they have nationalistic thoughts. Many of us think that he is pushing right wing ideologies and bad economic policies that will harm the nation. You see how we can all have nationalistic thoughts and disagree on what it means. What Ramdev is really arguing is that his nationalistic thoughts are better than mine. You still think we are fools?
You are trying to interpret on behalf of Ramdev. We know what Swadeshi means. We know what “Yoga” based nation means. We know that Ramdev runs a Yoga based multinational business. You are continuing the propagate the myth that yoga can cure diseases. It is scientifically unproven. There is nothing yoga can do that any decent exercise cannot do. So stop making excuses for him and face up to reality.
Ok, so they says that everybody should vote. Then they will say everyone should do Yoga, and finally everyone should drink Gau-mutra?!? All this is beneficiary, huh?!?
What is this non-sense?!? Where is freedom to not vote when people think no one deserve his/her vote?
We want leader who respect our freedom, not one who say us what should we eat and what should we drink.
Bharat … these are words of wisdom. The goals of Bharat Swabhiman (according to their website) are so fundamentally flawed that I am surprised that his own advisers and followers are not challenging him. Blind faith has taken over reason.
Hari,
I have seen many western people and there culture also. It is totally based on service to self. While our land taught us service to others. But, I do agree with you that democracy is a good idea given by west and that is why Ramdev ji is supporting that. In my view Randev ji wants to do great good to our nation. But modes being proposed by him are needed to be debated more. Ramdev ji never said that west has never done any thing good! You created this thought out of thin air and attributed to him! I challenge you to come out with reference! I am not yet sure to support Ramdev ji! but i don’t like pseudo secular guys like you who pre-train their mind. Could you come out with reference that proves that building these temples led starvation of people! When you blog please post with proposer references otherwise don’t talk your own crapy ideas!
Welcome Avinash,
The concept that Western world is about self is a tired old cliche. Never mind the billions of dollars the West provides for charity and aid to the developing world. The goals of Bharat Swabhiman Andolan is completely juvenile (one should not expect anything more from an organization lead by a person who has only studied up to 8th standard). You are right when you say that these goals should be debated. But only the critics are debating it. His followers like you are blindly following him and believing in whatever he says.
You wrote “Ramdev ji never said that west has never done any thing good! You created this thought out of thin air and attributed to him! I challenge you to come out with reference!”. Where did I say this? Are you putting words in my mouth and challenging me to prove it?
Anybody who questions a religion or a religious authority in India today is a pseudo secular person!! Ramdev himself has been very critical of Indian politicians most of whom are religious. So is Ramdev a pseudo secular? Why is pseudo secularism wrong but pseudo nationalism right?
I did not say in this article that building temples leads to starvation. But history is full of examples (including in India) where emperors and kings build lavish temples and mosques that bankrupted their kingdom. Shah Jahan building the Taj Mahal is a great example. You are so good at asking people for reference. Can you ask Ramdev for reference to the following issues: Can he prove that Yoga cures cancer? Is there evidence to show that 100% voting and 100% nationalistic thought will change the current situation in India? Does he have any evidence to prove that India can survive and be a leader with 100% boycott of foreign goods?
And you think my ideas are crappy!!!
why one should not vote? Do u have alternative to removing india from current situation. You are out of your mind..by criticizing instead of giving an alternative.wat is a bad economic policy? do u know why foren companies are eyeing india china etc.. why? u have any answer?? the answer is largest consumer base. why cant people consume by producing in india itself.. why export oriented economy.. have it done any good to country.. what it does is creating few rich and more poor..this is the reason of naxalisim, violence etc.
do u have any alternative?and wat is secular? secular means viewing everybody in equal eye.. not a muslim who gets 5% reservation in jobs in AP. it only divides country.. wat do u say?yes people have proof that cures cancer..u are ignorant about the facts of india..u only know wat u see in TV.
have u gone out of mind that u are asking by nationlistic thought we can prosper or not.. see japan, see france read their history see ancient indian history u will find ample evidence.
why voting should not be compulsary? u tell me atleast one reason which is in sake of country.. tell me.. if voting will be 100% the growth will be inclusive.. now the growth is exclusive..why people should not participate in a decision that will decide the future of country. tell me why?
u are just arguing for sake of arguing.. do u have a alternative?? and wat kind of evidence u are asking?there are lots of evidence which u need to read from history.current example is bhopal, by boycotting pepsi, coal 10000 people directly got employment.. have u ever seen this in TV? u will never see.. because of nexus.
Think and give counter argument dont critise..tell me wat harm it will cause.
Sitaram … one common theme I have noticed among most Ramdev supporters is the fact that they are very quick to provide a laundry list of items that they perceive are wrong with India. I am just a critic. I am not the person trying to win the elections. I am just looking at the 5 things that Ramdev wants to do to change India.
It is up to Ramdev and his supporters to inform people like me how 100% voting, 100% nationalistic thought, 100% Swedeshi and 100% yoga oriented nation will make the lives of average Indians better.
You asked me “Think and give counter argument dont critise..tell me wat harm it will cause“. The problem is that I do not want another party to grab power based on populism and feel good statements like the ones mentioned in the 5 goals. I want to hear detailed economic policies, educational policies, poverty alleviation programs and so on that are better than what is currently offered by Congress. The 5 goals proposed by Ramdev to a person like me sounds very similar to Hindutva. The 5 goals are theory and not practical. We already have the BJP and the people have rejected this party in two successive elections. As a political entity what does Bharat Swabhiman bring to the table other than a different version of Hindutva?
sitaram,
There is nothing wrong in consuming Indian products, but such consumption should be by choice, not by law. USSR too was a strong “Swadeshi” by force country, look what happened to it. Cuba is a swadeshi country and I recently read somewhere that the newest privately own car was made outside country in 1978.
Indian Automobile industry would have never taken off without help of foreign companies. I hope Baba don’t recommend pure environment friendly method of commutation, bail-gadi.
do u have seen any article that tells yoga cannot cure any diseases.. read yoga and science book u can understand.. dont speak like a educated fool..
and tell me wat is ur nationlist thoughts that u have.
Welcome Sitaram,
The fundamental scientific practice says that if you make a statement then the onus is on you to back up the statement with provable, repeatable data. If Ramdev claims that Yoga can cure cancer or 100% voting will improve India then it is up to him to prove that it is true. It not up to the rest of us to prove that yoga cannot cure cancer.
Now do you realize who is the educated fool?
You said
“100% Voting: This goal contradicts the second and third goals (nationalistic thought and boycott of foreign companies and adoption of Swadeshi). Parliamentary democracy as practiced in India today is a Western concept. It did not exist in India before the Europeans colonized the country. By insisting on 100% voting the Bharat Swabhiman is trying to strengthen a Western institution! If nationalism and the concept of Swadeshi are important then Bharat Swabhiman should have a plan to hand over the country to members of Indian royalty and going back to a feudal system.”
Now you want to assert that since Ramdev ji is opposing zero technology western goods and swadeshi bhavana therefore he is opposing everything that is western and since he is opposing everything that is western therefore his mode of using western democracy and championing 100% voting concept is contradictory, cheat and fallacy… I think you implied this only. Ain’t you? Now I said he never opposed western democracy or everything that is western. You imputed it to him by quoting his favour for nationalism and swadeshi. So it is like that if I am nationalistic and feel proud in swadeshi then I oppose each and every western concept. This is your philosophy!
I have already mentioned that Ramdev ji wants to do good in India but his modes are needed to be debated… and I am extending it depending on his modes and their analysis I will decide to vote or not to vote. I agree that a few assertions are highly controversial. But I support his all out ferocious approach against corruption.
you said
But history is full of examples (including in India) where emperors and kings build lavish temples and mosques that bankrupted their kingdom.
My response:
Give me the examples where temple was built while people suffered. I don’t believe shajhan represented Bharat bhumi. He was part of a dynasty that invaded Bharat and occupied it.. so don’t quote him….or any other Mughal ruler
You said:
“Never mind the billions of dollars the West provides for charity and aid to the developing world.”
Many of these billions of dollars were looted from India and China and Africa……Their wealth is standing on loot. Give answer to this comment….
You completely did not understand what I said in the first paragraph about 100% voting. By insisting on 100% voting you are strengthening (at least trying) to strengthen parliamentary democracy (the model practiced in India is European). I never said Ramdev is against anything Western. So 100% voting (therefore strengthening Western style democracy and Western style democratic institutions) and 100% nationalistic thought do not go hand in hand.
I really do not care whether Baba wants to do good for India. I only care about whether he is qualified to do it. His 5 goals do not give me any confidence that he can do it. It looks like it was written by my 5 year old nephew and not by someone who wants to dramatically change India.
Maybe for Hindu fundamentalists Shah Jahan might not represent Bharat. But for many patriotic Indians like me he does. He is one of the greatest emperors in the history of India.
People in the West contribute a lot of money for charity. It is a fact. Some of the money is made towards religious charities. I do not see an issue with it. The question is why are we not doing it.
FYI: I do not want to waste my time or yours discussing about what you think I implied. Let us discuss about what I actually wrote.
If any person will read my posts then he will become sure that your reasoning is completely flawed.
But I agree with you if Ramdev ji wants to change india he should come out with very detailed plans.
You have not given any example of temple which was built while people were suffering….basically you are avoiding what you can not answer. What you have mentioned earlier in one of your posts hurts my religion. You correct it or answer it. You are not leading to any discussion, you just want to assert based on your visceral and wrong feelings that is why I call you psuedo-secular fundamentalist. You have criticized Islam and Hinduism while sparing Chrsitianity……If west really wants to do charity then it should do it with out conversion. Then I will believe that they are doing real help…
Why are you blocking my last post in which I proved your feudalism concept wrong…
Tell me how 100% nationalism is bad idea….
Avanish Gupta
Avinash,
The only person who will think that my reasoning is flawed are Hindu fundamentalists (I have noticed that many of Ramdev’s followers are Hindu fundamentalists). I already gave you the example of Taj Mahal but you want a Hindu example also. Temples in India are built by emperors and kings with money collected from the people when these very people were living in abject poverty. The vast majority of Indians are poor then and they are poor now.
If what I said in some article hurts you then deal with it. Hinduism is not just your religion. It is mine too. You just constantly make accusations against people. Now you are saying “You have criticized Islam and Hinduism while sparing Christianity……”. Have you read my articles about the Pope, Ravi Zacharias or Saint Thomas? I never favor one religion over the other.
I have already answered why I think that 100% nationalistic thought is only theoretical in a response to Sitaram. I will paste it below “All Indians will tell you that they have nationalist thought. But how do you measure it? You can only measure it by actions. It is in the implementation that the problem comes. If you ask the Maoists they will tell you that they have nationalistic thoughts. Rest of us might disagree. Shiv Sena thinks they have nationalistic thoughts. People like me disagree. Ramdev and his supporters think that they have nationalistic thoughts. Many of us think that he is pushing right wing ideologies and bad economic policies that will harm the nation. You see how we can all have nationalistic thoughts and disagree on what it means. What Ramdev is really arguing is that his nationalistic thoughts are better than mine”
Can you write down a few things (that are practical) that would make an Indian 100% nationalistic?
You said:
Temples in India are built by emperors and kings with money collected from the people when these very people were living in abject poverty. The vast majority of Indians are poor then and they are poor now.
Indians in individual kingdoms were very happy and their living standards were far better than any other part of world. India was most prosperous country in the world. I expected this reply from you. I knew your lack of knowledge in this issue from your posts….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_GDP_(PPP)#1st_century
This wikipedia link demonstrate how, slowly but steadily the Economic Superpower of the World(Bharat) fell from top.
Just see, how after 1820 the Colonial empire emerged and took the major share. At that time it started to really exploit India. Its because of this only that China also lost its gdp after 1820. India used to do trade extensively with China before the colonial rule. But later on that was shrewdly stopped by colonial rule.
that is why I wanted example from you. Come out with clear reference…showing from historical reference that a particular temple was being built while people were starving…if you can not find example then please don’t make generalizations.
By Nationalization Ramdev ji means putting country above your religion, regionalism and caste etc.. I was hearing his lecture. he told that when you come out of your house then you should have only one mental identity and that is Indian. Now everyone will understand that shiv sena is not nationalistic because it is putting country behind regionalism…. How can you think them as nationalistic?
I have not seen your other articles but your comments in the posts smacked biasing that is what I had mentioned…
Avanish Gupta
Avinash … I cannot argue with a person who believes that human beings in India where much more happy and prosperous hundreds or thousands of years ago under barbaric rulers (who did not care or ask for the peoples opinion) than they are under democratic rule. Who are you kidding when you say that people were happy and prosperous?
You are telling me that Wikipedia is the source of this information. Use your common sense. And somehow the reason we are what we are today is because of colonial rule. Really? How did the colonial rulers enter India if we are strong and prosperous? For the past two thousand years our history is full of rulers from outside dominating and controlling significant parts of our territory.
Do you like governments using public funds to build temples, mosques, churches, statutes today? Do you think that it serves any good? So why would you think that it would have been alright to do it centuries ago? There is no justification for anybody at anytime in history to build these temples, mosques and other monuments. The existence of these temples is the evidence you are looking for to prove that these rulers did not give a damn about what the public thinks.
You are talking about the theory of nationalism. You and I may not think that Shiv Sena is nationalistic but the Sainiks think that they are nationalistic. You think Ramdev is nationalistic but I think that he is offering a version of Hindutva. All of us and our parties in theory are for putting nation over religion, regionalism and caste. So what is new? Also remember that putting nation over everything else is not a requirement present in the constitution of India.
Nationalism to me means taking care of the best interests of India. This includes guarding the country from being taken over by religious fanatics. I do the best I can by writing about it.
For your kind information wikipedia page is compiled from the work of economic historian Angus Maddison, former professor at University of Groningen and assistant director of the economics development division for the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (his work The World Economy: Historical Statistics.)
one more reference:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/hans_rosling_asia_s_rise_how_and_when.html
HIS DATA IS ALSO SUPPORTED BY UNITED NATIONS…..
I BASE MY ARGUMENTS ON AUTHENTICATED HISTORICAL REFERENCE…
Great reference Avinash. You forgot to mention that this estimate by Angus Maddison has been soundly criticized by many. New York Times best selling author called Maddison’s book “inaccurate and irrelevant”. The book is not based on “authenticated historical reference” as you put it. It is based on Maddison’s estimates.
In the 1st century India (during the Indo-Greek and Sangam periods) we do not even know who some our rulers where, how far their empire extended or what their beliefs where. But somehow someone was able to calculate India’s GDP. In the same book he also calculates the GDP of America in the 1st century (1600 years before an European stepped on the continent). Very reliable data indeed. And the UN supports this data. Excellent. UN also thought Iraq had nuclear weapons.
How many Indians where there in the 1st century (one of the most important numbers to calculate GDP). Did any of the rulers have a census bureau? Are there any written records or is it word of mouth or speculation?
I hope you also know that Angus Maddison wrongly estimated the GDP growth rate of China in the past 50 years. How can a person who miscalculated the GDP growth rate of China in the past 50 or so years calculate accurately the GDP of India or China 2000 years ago?
Be skeptical. Don’t get caught up in the hype.
I knew that you will come out with this. One of the reviewer’s (on his work commented that) Economist and Journalist Evan Davis has praised Maddison’s research by citing it as a “fantastic publication” and that it was “based on the detailed scholarship of the world expert on historical economic data Angus Maddison.” He also added that “One shouldn’t read the book in the belief the statistics are accurate to 12 decimal places.”
I hope you got the point.
To completely quell you I gave you second reference of Hans Rosling. His talk at TED gathering which is ‘The gathering’ of intellectuals. He has also iterated the same fact that India was on top of the chart in GDP and this is known to everyone that when most of Europe was barbaric at that moment India was called a GOLDEN SPARROW.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/hans_rosling_asia_s_rise_how_and_when.html
One more reference
“until the late 18th century India and china acocunted for 40% of the Global market.It was the time when everything exquisite and admirable came from east”
Andre Gunder Frank, ReOrient: Global Economy in the Asian Age, University of California Press, 1998
With this I have proved your last post wrong and a biased comment to counter my post.
I WOULD AGAIN SAY I BASE MY ARGUMENTS ON AUTHENTICATED HISTORICAL REFERENCE…
Buddy almost everyone invaded India because they knew that it is one of the most prosperous land. Most of the travelers have sung the glory of this land. Now with all this I wanted to prove one thing that unlike what you mentioned India was not poor. It was rich and and temples were not build while people were starving.
Now I turn to one of your comment
“Do you like governments using public funds to build temples, mosques, churches, statutes today? Do you think that it serves any good? So …”
What is wrong if a government build a temple. Materialistic living is not the only way to lead a life. I am not a theist and I believe in my religion and I am giving tax I would request my government to build schools, hospitals and TEMPLES also. How can you think that people don’t want temples or mosques to be built. You again generalized your own visceral feeling.
Avanish Gupta
Avinash,
I will end this thread with this comment.
GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports – imports).
Measuring each component (example private consumption) includes measuring thousands of other sub components (goods and services in case of private consumption).
Nobody can tell me that they have all this detailed information that is necessary to calculate GDP for 1st century India. This data is simply not available. One can only speculate.
India is not the only country that people particularly Europeans colonized. They colonized the whole world. America invaded Afghanistan but that does not mean that Afghanistan is a rich country or that America is a poor country. Countries invade other nations for many reasons not just for natural resources.
The reason why India was invaded was not just because of its wealth. One of the primary reasons is also to spread their religion and use the people of India as cheap labor. The Portuguese and the British were in India for almost 500 years. They do not need 500 years to loot India. They made Indians work hard and pay taxes which they used to develop their country. They used our soldiers to fight their wars. They did this to every nation on earth. Guys like you would rather believe in some fantastic tale rather than understand reality.
Building a temple might not be materialistic living for you but it is for me. You do not need temple to pray. I am sure people like me were there in ancient India who did not want their kings to waste money on building temples. It is strange that people like you who complain about corruption, Mayawathi’s statues etc. are the very same people supporting wasteful and corrupt government spending in the past by our rulers.
I want to base my beliefs about India on facts and not some tall tales that makes me feel good. I want to believe that India was a rich country in the past. But I do not want to base it on a book written by somebody who could not predict the GDP of China in the last 50 years. If you think I am visceral (not intellectual) after reading my comments and article then I have to say that you have no respect for your adversary. But I expect nothing less from a religious fanatic.
Dear Hari,
I would like to cite a example about “How Westerner’s felt about INDIA”:
LORD MACAULAY’S ADDRESS TO THE BRITISH PARLIAMENT, 2 FEBRUARY, 1835
“I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation.”
I hope Mr. Macaulay was perfect in his thinking and which became the prime reason for people like you and many other so called secular nationalists to show disrespect and disregard towards your own civilization and adoption of Western Philosophy.
Even China our neighbor, have always given first preference to their indigenous Medical System and Education system though ruled by the Britishers.
“Janani Janmabhumischa Swargadapi Gariasi”
Jai Bharat Mata..
Chandra Prakash,
What has Maculay’s statement about India have anything to do with whether or not Ramdev’s organization understands what is needed to govern India? Nothing.
Using terms like “secular nationalists” or “Western influenced” to smear Indians who ask difficult questions is a tired old strategy. You are trying to avoid answering the questions by talking about totally unrelated issues like whether or not I am disrespecting our civilization. I am not disrespecting anyone. But trying to win an election based on impossible, outlandish and juvenile promises like 100% voting and 100% swadeshi is very disrespectful to the intelligence of every Indian. We deserve better. We want our politicians to be honest and disclose the real plans if you have one!! Stop treating us as if we are in LKG or UKG.
You blame me for being western influenced. Then you say that we should have an indigenous medical system because the Chinese do it!! Do you see the irony here?
We should do what is in the best interests of Indians and the people of India will decide that come election time. Jai India!!
Dear Hari,
It looks you have set your mind in one way track and its impossible for you to look the other way.
If you feel anyone in this democracy is capable of governing India better, kindly suggest. As it is very easy to be a critique but very tough to otherwise act and proof yourself.
Swami Ramdev has contributed immensely for the well being of Society in every sphere he has worked. He has a visibility in the public domain 24×365 for the last 15 odd years which is unprecedented. You cant cite even a second Indian who can be anyway compared to him.
I advice you to spend a day with him whenever he comes to Kerala. I assure you the very next day you will stop criticizing him.
May God Bless You dear..
Chandra Prakash,
Just talking about me is not going to help you win the elections. The question here is whether Ramdev and Bharat Swabhiman has what it takes to govern such a large and complex country like India. Other than running a world wide for profit yoga enterprise what has Ramdev done in the 15 years? I do not have to know him personally to like him or vote for him. I want to read for myself what his plans for India are. Whatever I read from the Bharat Swabhiman website absolutely does not make sense.
Chandra,
LORD MACAULAY’s knowledge of India’s history must be very poor. before 1835, 100s of foreigners (most of muslims) came, penetrated deep through country, looted wealth and returned to his country! If they all can win, why not Britishers?
I would not pay attention to statement of anyone like MACAULAY who don’t understand this simple fact.
Let me tell you what is major problem with may Indians: They emphasize too much on cultural values which are extinct without understanding reason behind it’s extinction. Like language Sanskrit, how did it got extincted? Did muslims kill it? no. Indians were largely Hindus before muslims came to India, and Sanskrit was gone by then. Attempt to revive sanskrit is not going to solve any problem, it would just waste tons of money and time. I would better like my kids learn computer programing language then learn sanskrit. But you know what, those self proclaimed culture advocates will not allow removing Sanskit from schools.
having this mentality in existence, I will say “god, please save our great culture from those culture advocates”.
Hari,
If you cant sense Ramdev, its your disguise.. And, Its only time which will make you sense..
Anyway you stick to your point and try to explain just one thing “if he is not capable of managing India.. who the hell is.. is it you Hari.. ur friend Patel.. or anyone else in your knowhow..
I am not the issue Chandra Prakash. I am an average voter trying to figure out whom to vote for. Right now I do not know anything about Ramdev other than the fact that he is a very successful businessman who has made very dubious claims about the medicines that his company sells. I am also very concerned about the fact that he does not want to run for politics but wants to nominate someone else to be the PM. This sounds very similar to Sonia Gandhi and her strategy.
Good job Hari,
moreover, Swadeshi is against Indian culture. You won’t find any reference of Swadeshi in ancient Indian scriptures, and it is relatively new concept introduced by Mr. Gandhi. Why did Lord Rama killed Swadeshi Vali, but accepted help from videshi Vibhishan in war against Ravana? Same goes to lord Krishna who recommended making videshi Drustdhumn head of Pandav army, to beat pure swadeshi kaurav leaders including his relatives!
The decisions loads Rama & Krishana made was based on what is good and what is not. It was not based on if it is swadeshi or not.
You will find 100s of examples of our great kings, lords and saints over 1000s of years who accepted good videshi against bad swadeshi. Thus one who recommand absolute Swadeshi either has poor knowledge of history of Indian culture or (s)he is trying to score cheap points by manipulating popular feelings.
Jai Hind
Very well said Bharat. India has to do everything it can to improve the lives of Indians. This would mean learning from the West and other nations and also trading with them when necessary. Polices like 100% swadeshi will bankrupt India. The closest we came to a “swadeshi” policy is during Indira Gandhi’s rule and we all know what happened.
Chandra Prakash,
You sounds like one of true patriots who care for country and have desire to spend time to respond in blogs like this one. Thank you for your patriotism.
I would have probably more fiercely argued in favor of Mr. Ramdev, had this happened 5 years ago. My mind is completely changed in 5 years, and I would thank Computers and Internet for providing me provoking knowledge of human behavior and History. It’s good to have desire to solve a problem, but it’s bed to invite even bigger problem as a solution of smaller problem, and I realize that Ramdev is like bigger problem.
Here is what I observed (It is purely my own observation, not inspired by someone else).
*** Mr. Ramdev is willing to be a proxy ruler. That is, as he declared, he will not take any position, but would promote his party and would work to solve India’s problem after his party win. Now, proxy ruling has always failed to achieve promises. Here are some examples.
* British rule in India: The admin level ruling was done by Indians, but British queen actually made key decisions as proxy ruler which bankrupted India. This was pretty much Intended by Britishers, but not by the rulers who were proxy of British Queen.
* Mr. Gandhi was a proxy ruler, he didn’t take any political or administrative position, but mandated his will in selecting and removing congress presidents (re: Subhas Chandra Bose was removed from Presidency by Gandhi), he choose first PM of India against will of vast majority to make Sardar Patel PM, he emotionally forced then home minister of India Sardar Patel to give Rs. 55 Carore to Pakistan even after Pak didn’t follow devision rules etc. Now Mr. Gandhi was pure soul, but his proxi-ruling didn’t achieve Ram-Rajya he dreamed.
* Jay Prakash Narayan was another proxy who contributed to over through Indira Gandhi by Nav Nirman andolan. Again failed to deliver promises by PMs he choose. JPM was another pure & honest soul, but failed to deliver.
Having gone through these experiences, why would one think that Mr. Ramdev as proxy ruler will be successful? Here is catch, in order to make key decisions, one need to know information which is available by law to only top leaders like PM, President, Chief Justice etc. It’s very likely to make wrong decision and damage country without this information. Now Mr. Ramdev won’t suppose to have that information as a no-position-holder, and so can’t make right decision. If PM or president provide secret information to Ramdev, then it will be betrayal with India because it will be violation of laws. Can someone please explain how Ramdev legally overcome this situation and make right decisions?
Ramdev made money by lie that Ayurved and Yoga can cure Cancer, TB, diabetes, Aids and many other diseases. Then he started throwing ambiguous statements regarding his earlier statements about those Cancer, TB, diabetes, Aids. He will do same as proxy ruler.
If he is so intelligent then why don’t he do something new in his own field, ie pharmacy instead saling 1000s years old treatments? There are many un-curable diseases and I am sure they will be solved by allopathic doctors and phamacies latter or sooner, not by Ayurved masters like Ramdev.
On his personal trait, he repeatedly said that Astrology is fake and he don’t believe in it etc and he don’t make predictions, but then ironically he also said that he is going to live 140 years! What is that if not prediction?!?
A dishonest person who made money by lies will choose dishonest politicians to make money by corruption, as BJP did after gaining power by “saling” Indian culture to voters.
I want to write more, but will do it latter.
PS: The most recent proxy rule example is PM ManMohan Singh as Proxy of Sonia Gandhi. Mr. Manmohan is no double an intelligent person, with scholarly knowledge of economy, but he failed to control corruption, inflation, terrorism, partitionism etc. I won’t expect him to solve any major problem as be is being proxies.
Agreed. But Manmohan Singh did stand for elections and won. He is answerable to the Indian parliament. The Congress Party did win reelection recently so maybe the people judge his performance differently than you and I do.
I don’t agree with you.
ManMohan never won Lok Sabha election. He is “elected” by politicians as Raj Sabha member.
Congress projected MM Singh as PM candidate in elections of 2009 and Cong have 208 seats in Lok Sabha, that is 38% of total 542 seats. I won’t call it “People’s choice”.
I emphasize here, Manmohan never had his own popularity to make to PM position. He was at large appointed by Royal Gandhi family. This is completely opposite to Bajpayee, whose own charisma was driving force of BJP.
Bharat,
I understand your sentiments. But what matters in this case is what is allowed within the framework of India’s constitution. It is perfectly legal to get nominated to the Raj Sabha by the legislature (I think Manmohan Singh is representing Assam in this case).
In a parliamentary system that we have, the coalition that has the majority gets to run the country. The UPA has it and the Congress happens to be the most dominant party in this coalition. Even if the Congress or the BJP gets 50% of the seats they still would not be the people’s choice because only about 55% of the eligible voters vote.
Talking about the BJP (I know I am digressing), I would like to see the party showcase polices that can unite, reform and transform India. Bold initiatives like political and electoral reforms, term limits (within the party and government), elimination of caste system, moving away from Hindu/Hindi based politics and so on. I am sure people who vote for Congress know the short comings of Manmohan Singh and the Congress. Many of these people are waiting for a viable alternative.
Hari,
I am not telling that MM Singh is illegal. I just wanted to point out that any proxy ruling is not going to make major positive difference.
I don’t expect BJP to solve any problem. Here is my thumb rule, if a party have majority in state or national level, form a government without support from other party and still can’t make significant progress during first 3 years in solving any major problem then he will be absolute failure. They will not solve problem even if they are given 30 or 300 years.
Here is what I observed by reading history: Any long lasting grass-root level positive change in any country was done in less than 3 years by active organisation. People eventually lost interest from all slow movements, like they did in Ram Mandir & Anti-reservation movements.
I hear a lots of hype about Gujarat’s progress under CM Mr. Modi’s. I am a Gujarati and so i know all problems like corruption, real-estate mafia giri, Police Dadagiri etc are intact. Moreover, Modi indebted Gujarat faster than any CM of any state has ever indebted his state. Modi’s policies not only indebted government, he indebted poeple’s too. Gujarat’s progress is largely due to rising debt level which will eventually create disaster. I can write more on this, but it is different matter so will stop here.
In general, BJP’s state governments are biggest borrowers.
Bharat,
I agree with you. A politician cannot make an impact when people clearly know that there are much more powerful individuals behind the scenes calling the shots. Individuals like Sonia Gandhi and Baba Ramdev are similar. They want access to power without willing to pay the political price that comes along with it.
Social change will happen in India when Indians are ready for change. Indians are in the complaining mindset right now. Indians should stop complaining and start understanding the issues behind the problems. Then they have to understand that addressing these issues involves a lot of given and take. India is not there yet. So I do not blame the governments for the way things are right now.
Over the past few weeks I’ve steadily become more aware of Baba Ramdev’s work. His avid fans write to me, asking me to watch this video or that.
I don’t have time to watch videos, but did watch one – where Rajiv Dixit and Baba Ramdev spoke – and found it amazing in terms of the ignorance about world history displayed by Dixit, and his praise for Mao Tse Tung and other communists! I haven’t watched more videos but I do hope that Mr Dixit is not advocating communism!
Next I discovered that Baba Ramdev wants to ban cow slaughter. I found it to be a misguided viewpoint and tantamount to religious interference in the affairs of the state.
Following a link sent to me today by one of his fans I came across http://bharat-swabhiman.com/en/about/ (do read this page).
Now I’m beginning to become concerned! I’m not yet alarmed but concerned that Baba Ramdev might be biting off more than he can chew. It is not necessary for an outstanding yogi to also be an outstanding engineer. So also Baba Ramdev is excellent in yoga but VERY weak in policy. He also has no one within his group that can advise him on policy.
Take two examples:
1) 100% boycott of foreign companies, adoption of ‘swadeshi’
This a seriously misguided. If swadeshi means what it should mean in Hindi, then the website of Baba Ramdev should be shut down, for NONE of it was invented in India. Everything underpinning the website including electricity, the transistors, the integrated chips, the internet infrastructure, the software was developed OUTSIDE India. The atomic theory, the entire physics behind it, was developed outside India.
If he is serious about swadeshi, Baba will also need to ensure that all Indians shut off their electricity and stop using bicycles, cars, buses, trains, and planes. And he should immediately stop using his mobile phone. And so on…
Is the Baba aware of how badly misguided this policy is! He needs to read about how wealth is created. He can start with Adam Smith, or at least chapters 2 and 3 of BFN.
2) We will adopt nationalist thought 100%, and while in our personal lives we observe Hindu, Islam, Christian, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, etc. religious traditions, in our public lives we will live like a true Bharatiya.
I have no objection in principle with this but this statement is DEEPLY contradicted by the Baba’s other statements. What is a Bharatiya? To find an answer to this question we can seek guidance from two other statements: (a) 100% yoga-oriented nation; and (b) ban on cow slaughter (i.e. no one to eat beef).
With re: to (a) I’m a great fan of yoga since it helped me immensely as part my cure of RSI (see my RSI cure website here). I attend at least one yoga class each week even now (apart from a Pilates class, and many other things I do at the gym/pool). But what if someone doesn’t want to practice yoga? Is that person not Bharatiya? Isn’t such an objective by a political front a blatant encroachment of religious views on the affairs of society?
Second, (b) – i.e. ban on cow slaughter – contradicts the religious freedom of Muslims and Christians (and many Hindus as well) to eat beef. How can people live their personal life as Muslims or Christians but be forbidden by the state to eat beef?
Note that statement (2) is good in principle, but because Baba Ramdev is not an advocate of freedom, he is mixing up good things with bad. Yes, people must not, as statement (2) states, mix their religion in the affairs of the nation. But therefore also, Baba Ramdev can’t ask people to take up yoga or forbid their eating beef if they want to – just because he is a Hindu. What if Baba Ramdev was born a Muslim? Would he then say such things? How can our policy positions be based on the beliefs of the family to which we were born?
He is advocating religious interference in the affairs of state, and he doesn’t understand policy. India can never become a free nation or a successful nation with such policies.
Tentative conclusion
Nothing from what I have read, watched (on video) or understood about Baba Ramdev so far convinces me that he is capable of delivering even remotely on his fundamental promise of honest good governance. He will fail since he doesn’t understand policy and doesn’t understand the causes of India’s corruption and misgovernance. His team, e.g. people like Dixit do not seem capable of achieving anything either (from what I have gathered so far, given that they also presumably agree to such policies).
PREDICTIONS
True, Baba Ramdev is very popular, and he WILL influence Indian politics. But the results won’t be what his followers want. From what he seems to be advocating I can now safely predict the following:
a) His party will take half of BJP’s vote but barely a single Congress vote. Both BJP and his party will fare badly in the elections as a result, making it VERY EASY for Congress to win.
b) Even if his party and BJP undertake seat adjustments, and manage to win a majority together and form a coalition, the coalition will fail to provide good governance because neither BJP nor his party understand policy.
In either scenario, India is doomed to further misgovernance. Congress – the totally corrupt socialist organisation will rule, or BJP/Baba Ramdev coalition will rule – which is totally confused about policy.
Solution: The solution for India is very simple. We need a clearly liberal group that understands how to govern and create excellent outcomes for all Indians. That group is FTI. Its policies will ENSURE the abolition of corruption and illiteracy, among other things. No one else can provide Indians what they desperately want: peace, good education, honest governance, health, and wealth. NO OTHER GROUP IN INDIA CAN ENSURE THAT. ZERO CHANCE. IMPOSSIBLE! Sawaal hi paida nahin hota.
Unless – of course, Baba Ramdev’s ideas change, and he takes a crash course on policy. He can take a crash course in policy by reading BFN. That should be the first book on policy for anyone who wants to reform India. Just like people need to read a book by an expert physicist in order to understand gravity, so also they can start with BFN to understand policy. I can take yoga classes from him. He can take policy classes from me. Let the best that India can offer be made available to the people of India. Let us not get our Policy from a Yogi, nor Yoga from me!
Welcome to my site Rishab. Your points are well taken.
Paras,
==>…Your word selection is superb, like you said Baba’s gang.
Thanks a lot for above comment Paras, I am glad you like my word selection and your comment is very encouraging! I would try to use words like that more often to please you!!!
Unlike you may have assumed, I respect a lot of peoples, a few are listed below.
1. Yourself: Yes Paras, I have a lot of respect for you for your dedicated efforts to publicize what you believe in, assuming that you have no personal gain in doing so. Regardless what you are doing is right or wrong, your attempts are admirable (which makes you respectable), because it is driven by your selfless non-destructive faith as you believe it.
2. Hari: I respect Hari for same reasons as I respect you, I believe he is not doing so for personal gain. He is arguing in favor of liberty, transparency and responsibility (forgive me if I am missing any adverb(s) here). And he is doing so with profound logic.
3. Dr. Abdul Kalam: If I have to spend rest of my life on doing what a single person say, then that person will be Dr. Abdul Kalam. That’s how much I respect him for truly selfless dedicated work he did for India over multiple decades straight. On the way, he had tremendous opportunities to enjoy every luxury available in this world (at other people’s expense), but he choose to live a simple life and that’s I like most about him.
4 to 499: There are many more like my parents, my family members, my x-boss, co-workers, neighbors and friends.
500: Myself: For same reason as I respect you and Hari.
…501 to 3000000000: 3 Billion middle-class common people living in 6 continents. The world’s economic and other systems are working because of their cumulative work.
3000000001 to XXXXXXXXXX(The world population minus several thousands jerks like Ramdev): I respect them because as I know they didn’t try to make money by hypnotizing masses.
I just don’t respect a few thousands because I think they aren’t respectable. Everyone is born with a little god-granted respect, some of them like Ramdev lost it by their actions.
==========
Regarding your comments about AIIMS comments on Ramdev: What if I say that you are looking the situation from wrong direction and actually Ramdev is pro-allopathy? I have proof to claim it, look the links below.
http://sweetshenu.multiply.com/links/item/535
The above link has the following.
“I also agree that there is no alternative to modern medical science ….”, Ramdev said.
Did you get it? Above sentence is true and Ramdev is actually agreeing with modern medical science, at least that’s how the sentence read.
But on scrutiny, you will find that Ramdev’s speech was actually against modern medical science.
Same goes for your comments about AIIMS commending Ramdev, You just take part of picture which support your argument and forget everything else. You didn’t mention how many Billions of Rupees Dr. Gulam Nabi Azad approved for Allopathic treatment and how many millions of TB and Malaria patients get benefits per year by it (means they are coming back to life from near death situation). You may have missed that part willfully because it was against your argument.
Finally, it seems that you have no interest in counter-arguing for questions like “Why RD is not saving 700K Cancer people dying every year?”. Now tell me what should I call you, if not “a faithful but blind follower”?
Hi Bharat
I would answers your specific questions now.. All these while I was not answering the specific questions but writing my mind.
You Said :
Regarding your comments about AIIMS comments on Ramdev: What if I say that you are looking the situation from wrong direction and actually Ramdev is pro-allopathy? I have proof to claim it, look the links below.
Answer :
Yes he appriciate allopathy, but upto the extend of emergency operations and their R&D, their Diagnosis etc etc.
But at the same time he is against the imposed treatment just to please few world top medicine company so that they earn money from rest of the world and dictate WHO to mend the rules.
He has all the praise to Indian Doctors who did their job for the patients but not for promoting the medicine, drugs which will subside the disease for the time being but eventually will get trapped in it to use and reuse for the whole life time.
Also I have personally seen that AIIMS program honouring SRD on TV, but not read it in SRD site. I have got Doctors (MD) in my family, so know details about their profession(U can disagree to it).
SRD is against everything where he sense the West conspiracy for minting money from poor indians. So only he suggest to lead a healthy life style. Due to his Yoga program early in the morning, many of us indians started waking up early to do Yoga techniques (I myself do it regularly from past 6 years now). Before Yoga, I was into the sports like cricket, squash and running early in the morning.
I feel I was healthy, but never conquer my piles(lived with it for a year) and Migraine(lived with it for 4 years).
Then in 2004, I have started Yoga by watching SRD doing it in Astha Program.
Initially, I also started doing it whitout any believe in it, as my wife keep presurising me to do it. Although she herself didn’t do yoga untill she caught up with Throat infection particularly in Winter and Mansoons.
Initially she was taking Azithromycine and got cured for few months, and then again keep getting infected for 5-6 times in 2 years. Then she visited doctor(allopathy) who advised Tonsil Operation.
I have inquired the doctor about its re-occurence, to which his comments where like that
” Agar apka kaan cut kar diya jaye to kya voh phirsee grow ho sakta hein”
Then I give up and told my wife to follow SRD yoga technique to get cured the Tonsil(throat injection problem). Then she first time in 2008 started doing specific Yoga breathing technique suggested by SRD.
Now its already 2 years and she doesn’t developed the tonsil(throat injection problem) anymore after that.
We know live in US from past one year, and we lived in all type of hostile climatic conditions here, but she never complain about it. (U can disagree to it, as I didn’t present you her reports right Bharat)
You Said :
Same goes for your comments about AIIMS commending Ramdev, You just take part of picture which support your argument and forget everything else. You didn’t mention how many Billions of Rupees Dr. Gulam Nabi Azad approved for Allopathic treatment and how many millions of TB and Malaria patients get benefits per year by it (means they are coming back to life from near death situation). You may have missed that part willfully because it was against your argument
Answer:
Do I need to highlight something which arguably everybody knows. Read the word Arguably in my statement, as I have got my Granny died of TB dispite taking all Allopathic treatment for years.
DO I need to tell u that I have seen Babaji stock of Swine flu medicine ran out of stock throughout the country. All these are not just comments, but experiences I and my family members have realised during then.
I was in pune (largest no. of deaths happened their) I didn’t had any allopathy unlike many of the indians consumed. I refuse the mask which almost whole pune was wearing. Now per you I can be a isolated case of chance. But my dear friend was with me got Swine flu infected sits right next to me. He is still coming to terms from his near death experience. He was on allopathy FYI.
You Said:
Finally, it seems that you have no interest in counter-arguing for questions like “Why RD is not saving 700K Cancer people dying every year?”. Now tell me what should I call you, if not “a faithful but blind follower”?
Answer We and your allopathy is living with cancer now for decades, and you want the cure of it from SRD is months. Now see the amount of R&D money goes to get the correct allopathy drug to save people, but nothing substantial has been achieved for these years.
One simple test you do on yourself.
Check your platlates count test in any authentic mordern diagnosis center (Like Apollo)and then do the same test after performing Yoga for a week.
I need not to tell you the test result, u urself would see it in your final report.
This would take maximum 3 weeks for you to understand the impact of Yoga in your life.
hari bhai,
these are following facts which i hope will open the eyes of u and brothers like u.
1.10 lakh crores are being looted or robbed off every year in our country in the name of medicinal treatments. A deadly game of medicines, medicinal tests andoperations of least significance is being played on daily basis.
2.Another 10 lakh crores are being washed off on annual basis in the name of liquor, tobacco,chewing beetle nuts, narcotics and durgs.
3.A total of 5 lakh crores is being loot-ed, robbed off annually which is distributed amongst foreign investors and multinational companies selling us soaps,shampoos, toothpaste, creams,powder, pickles, chutneys,chips, coca-cola and Pepsi,products not that useful and manufactured with least techno-logical outbreaks. The outward flow of this money is further denting the Indian economy.
4.Another 5 lakh crores are poisoningorganically rich agricultural fields and human health in theform of Urea, D.A.F and chem-ical fertilizers and poisonous pesticides and weedicides. Theirextensive use has taken us afar from husbandry animal based agricultural system due to which such animals which have no use left are being butchered away mercilessly.
As per the Tax Justice Network,Transparency International,Pravartan nideshalaya, Kendriya satarkata aayog, and many other national and international eco-nomic organizations 11.5Trillion Dollar cross border blackmoney is stashed away from public use. As per the Indian currency it is equal to 518 lakh crores and around 258lakh crores out of it belongs tothe corrupt Indians.. The loot is still going on. Black money amounting to 1.6 trillion dollars is still being deposited every year which means even now almost 72 lakh crores of black money is deposited in the for-eign vaults, which is laundered across the globe. It is not a national issue today but has been accepted as an internation-al problem. .Half of 72 lakhcrores are from the Asian conti-nent and further half of it equal-ing 18 lakh crores from India arebeing deposited in the foreign bank. If we consider this amount in terms of monthly or daily basis then every month 1 lakh 50 thousand crores, every day 4931.5 crores, 206 crores per hour and 3 crores 42 lakh per minute.
ramdev baba and bharat swabhiman wants all people in the country to come together and join hands to stop the loot and bring back black money.
Hope u understand the intention and reason behind bharat swbhiman.
Jai Hind
Sitaram,
I will tell you what I told Paras. Every Indian knows about the situation in India. We are not fools so you do not have to time and again repeat all the things that are wrong with India and all the different types of corruption that is taking place in India.
What we need are solutions. Bharat Swabhiman does not bring anything to the table in terms of solutions. In fact what Bharat Swabhiman is proposing (100% voting, 100% Yoga based nations, 100% swadeshi) etc. will only damage and cause harm to what we have already achieved.
Hi Hari
But you wanted to live with those corrupt situation/environment as per your comments that Corruption if the natural phenomenon to human, to which I disagree outrightly. I have commented that I am not happy or contend with political environment in india, and ready to explore the new methods for first building the mass momentum and then disclose the way out.
To counter your argument of first giving the solution by SRD then you would or you may not agree to him is not justifiable nor happened in the history of any country.
When first time people except first govt. in any country, its purely on the basis of faith.
This faith is the outcome of the character shown by the politician for decades after decades before asking your precious vote.
We have known for now that SRD has not carry any hidden agenda, but he tells everything crystal clear to all. He has been in Public Yoga practising for 15 years now. He transform himself to spritual guru to future Lok Neta. If some of us have problem with that then bring your support from the masses like SRD did, and counter him.
Paras,
I will conclude our discussion with the following comment.
You have to first learn to be truthful and honest. I never said I “wanted to live with those corrupt situation/environment“. By repeatedly misrepresenting what others are saying you and the organization that you support are no different than any other political party or leader that you complain against. Indians are looking for real leaders and trustworthy parties.
I have repeated argued that Ramdev and his organization have not published any policy that can counter corruption in India. There is a lot of complaining about corruption but no solutions offered. Actually there is one. Print different denominations of currency. So far no evidence has been provided as to how this will prevent or reduce corruption!
One cannot own a multimillion dollar business, make dubious claims about the products they sells, jet set around the world, refuse to stand for elections and then tell the people that they should vote for his organization and then run the country from behind the curtain. This is clearly not the type of person or organization that India is looking for now.
Indians want real change.
Paras,
I feel your arguments are based on assumptions that Ayurvedic & Yoga practitioners are by default pure and saint who are very honest and they don’t have self interest to make money, while Allopathy practitioners are evils who care only money. This is biggest fallacy one can have, and the facts says that Ayurvedic practitioners are same selfish. Want to test my statement? Just find a malaria, pneumonia, thyroid or jaundice patient and take him to any Ayurvedic doctor (including your Baba) and see what (s)he does. All above mentioned deceases can be recognized easily by any doctor (Ayurvedic or Allopathic), but Ayurvedic doctor will not recommend seeing allopathic doctors before 3-4 visits (Ayurbvedic medicines have less than 30% of success rate on curing those deceases while allopathy has it near 100%), so that he can make enough money before recommendation.
It basically boil-downs to selfish human nature which is driving force behind their will to make money at cost of patient, and no-one is exception whether it is Allopathic, Ayurvedic, accupressure, Yoga or any other practitioner including your Baba (Who I found costliest among all listed in terms of Ayurvedic medicine prices). It don’t mean to say that all practitioners are corrupt, but labellings a type of practitioners as more honest than other types is ideological dishonesty.
Given above, the decision of treatment should not be made based on the claims or assumption that practitioner of a type of treatment is “more honest” then other types. The decision should be made based on records of type of practice. While Yoga and Ayurved being oldest, there is no records maintained till date as how many patients are using it as cure, and how many of them get benefits, how many got killed by decease etc. On the other hand, Allopathy medicines producers and practitioners are by law requires to keep and publish records of their treatment which make them feel more trustworthy then Ayurved. That’s reason behind Allopathy’s success.
Regarding your claim on Piles cure: I have two friends (they are brothers) who got piles and it goes away in 3-5 days without any medicines, just by increasing fibers in food intake and removing spices! No Yoga needed, and this is recommended by our family Allopathic MD as a primary cure before going on medicines which worked well and fast.
I actually bought Ramdev’s DVD “Yog Science” 45 days ago, just to see what piece of craps he sales. The money I spent to by this DVD was kind of most wasteful spending. He just keep telling for an hour to take and exhale deep breath, which I often naturally do after I run just 30 seconds to catch bus or train (same deep breathing which can’t be stopped). And of course it helps me feel better and cure my cough-cold etc, see I am a Yogi without doing yoga at Baba’s way. He could have easily said all he said in DVD in 2 minutes if he don’t keep re-wording and repeating same thing, but then how would he make money? He could also have published it free an You Tube or on his website for free download, but again, then how to make money? See he is not any better than those “Allopathy practicing looters”, except that he is very inefficient in delivering his message.
I found allopathy practicing Cancer hospitals more honest, who upfront says (under force by laws) that patients may not get results they need or expect. I have yet to come across a Yog Guru or Ayurvedic doctor who claim curing cancer and admit that his treatment may not work.
Make your definition of robbery or looting clear please. If I willfully spend 1000 Rs. to get rid of malaria while being well aware of side effects (printed on medicine pack) and Ayurvedic options (claiming side-effect free) then it is a normal business, not a loot. Especially when there is no visible or hidden force working behind it.
His firm Divya Pharmacy recently “looted” $11 (including shipping) from me by saling a DVD in which he clearly and loudly claimed that breathing 30 minutes the way he said “will cure all known and unknown deceases in a few days”. I consider a sale using a lie as a loot. I requested returning DVD for full refund based on this lie and I was denied. Let’s test his ability to bring looted money to India, start with my small amount by punishing looters and returning my money. If he can’t get me looted $11 in a week, then those Rs. XXX lakh Carores are just too big for him. And by all means, this loot by Divya Pharmacy is going on even today! Now how a looter will work against other bigger looters? At best he will join hands with them to make killing.
Actually Ramdev wants to loot people more by forcing unreliable Ayurvedic medicines by law on every Indian as “better option” on name of culture so that his firm Divya pharmacy can make more money. And his gang have no matching options like stem-cell plantation, computerized within body real-time decease monitoring by swallowed capsule computer, application of medicines on selective types of blood cells etc. There are all latest technology in first stage which is projected to mature in 20 years (USA medical scientists have unparalleled records in following projected time frames, so don’t dispute it) when Indians will be using Cow-Urine as cure per laws passed by Ramdev, if he makes a government. Millions will die every year even though they could be easily saved through western medicines, and Ramdev’s Gundas in government will report the death as “natural cause” or blame it on food grown by “western agricultural procedures” ignoring fact that western countries don’t have similar death toll. I have no doubt that health minister under Ramdev’s govt will report Yoga and Ayurved 100% successful, by hiding all failures.
Ramdev calls Indian womans Maa, Bahen and Beti. Now he lived in luxury resident and fly on planes while more than 20 Carores of his Maa, Bahen and Beti lives in slums. Given this sameless gesture, do you think he will give money to common-man if he bring black money to India. Nah, he will keep it for himself and the gang. Can’t he live simple life like Gandhiji had, with minimum luxury so that he can spend money on poor people? Do you know price of his car? I know, you will claim it was gifted by a bhakt, but can’t he sale that gift and use money for poor like Gandhiji did? This is very common expectations from a true “Sansar Tyagi”.
So far Ramdev created nothing which didn’t already existed before he was born, in terms of Ayurved, Yoga and everything he did. And he did nothing which is not already done 1000s time before him. Even every topic in his political agenda has been used multiple time by other parties before. What is your logic to convince people that he will do things differently and this time he will deliver what he claims?
bhai,
i request all of u not to argue with hari bhai and his co. regarding bharat swabhiman. they are free to hold their views.Dont waste time on this wasteful discussions.
And for those who are pro-bharat swabhiman should work more harder to spread the message of babaji and rajiv dixit ji to more people.
Hari Bhai and Co. will see the golden bharat in days to come one day and they will regret not to be part of a revolution to change the country.
Jai Hind
Sitaram,
I agree with you that India (not just Bharat) has a great future ahead of it. If Indians continue to work hard as they do now success is inevitable. But I am guessing that organizations like Bharat Swabhiman may not have a role to play in building this future. 100% voting, 100% yoga based nation, 100% swadeshi, 100% nationalist thought and 100% unification of the nation are polices that will result in 100% political failure.
Sitaram,
I am glad at least one SRD follower gave up against questions of logical viability of SRD. I hope whole Bharat Swabhiman will soon follow.
Please accept my salutes, there is at least one person in SRD’s group who knows to accept defeat against more logical reasoning. Everyone else I encountered so far keep arguing without any logic, just purely based on faith on SRD.
Once again, I request you to at least respect Hari for allowing your comments uncut, even-though your comments are against his comments. So far I attempted more than 65 times (in 4 months) to make post with minor critics on different SRD supporting portals, and none of the comments were allowed to display. I have all log of the date/time, site and comments which I will try to publish in Indian news paper, so that people know how SRD supporters make it look like SRD is widely accepted hero, by not allowing critics. There are no reasons to believe that SRD supporters will change this anti-democracy behavior if they get power.
Hi All,
We know now that Bharat Swabhiman has no idea outside of changing the currency to solve the problem of corruption in India.
But did you know that Sonia Gandhi has a plan? Please read my article about Sonia Gandhi’s “plan” for solving this tough issue!
What Ramdev is offering as solution of corruption is just basic requirements, not solution. He offered getting 543 honest members elected in parliament which by itself could not remove corruption, and it is same excuse used by different new political parties in past to gain power. And all they are corrupt now!
But we have a plan with reasoning as why it would work. Please visit our plan at http://www.bharatswabhimanbachao.com/Our_Solution_of_Corruption.htm