You should watch your language. You throw around words like colonial slaves to describe fellow Indians. You show the same amount of intolerance towards people from India that the colonist that you supposedly hate did.

In India I have the right to question anything that I feel like until I find answers that satisfy me. We live in a democratic society. As a prominent Indian Buddha himself said “do not believe something because somebody else said so or because it is in our scriptures”. I do not want to believe your explanations of the caste system just because you say so either.

You have a hatred for Christianity, Islam, Christian educational institutions and things that are Western. I do not. There are a lot of things that we can learn from them as much as they can learn from us. Christians and Muslims are as much Indians as you and me. India does not belong to the Hindus alone.

I did not at any point justify colonial exploitation of India. But you make unsubstantiated claims like “So dont cover up british atrocities, british colonial exploitation, just by using caste system”. I look at the issue of caste system in India today as an Indian. I might come to different conclusions than you but that does not make me any less of an Indian than you.

Since I am not dependent on people like you for information I was able to find out more about the caste system than I probably would otherwise. There are many genetic studies done to understand the caste system in India. A 2009 study by Harvard Medical School, MIT and the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (Hyderabad) shows that the caste system is thousands of years old. I have written an article about it earlier this week.

The upper castes have predominantly Ancestral North Indian (ANI) DNA and the lower castes have predominantly Ancestral South Indian (ASI) DNA. This division happened thousands of years before the Europeans colonists arrived in India (the ANI DNA has European markers). So the claim that the caste system was based on occupation and that there was great “upward and downward” portability of caste until the Europeans arrived does not hold water. What DNA tells us is that human migration into India from other parts of the world has more to do with the creation of the caste system than simplistic theories that it was created by Lord Krishna for division of labor based on skill set.

Thank goodness for “Western” discovery of the DNA and DNA sequencing. Otherwise we Indians would have to depend on spin masters like you with preset agendas for information.

Its only colonial slaves who can speak like this.. the hotmail, IP address, speaking in english are all common for all countries.. that doesnt mean we have to imitate everything that the white people does.. You dont seem to understand the difference b/w business and life.. such has been the colonial slavery that you are exhibiting, vouching so much strongly for britishers inspite of the fact that they sucked up india from prosperity to utter poverty..
one third of bengal’s population perished within 100 years of british rule..

You seem to have lofty view of christianity, britishers, white people.. and hence anything they does appears high for you.. there is no better travesty than this..

It is only in india, that the version of history created by an enemy country is being hailed as true history..

Education is the one that shapes a man, his like/dislinkes, his thought process.. and it is common sense, that christian education has imparted you a western values that makes you think everything negatively about india..

Please accept this truth before accusing others of hypocrisy..

/** This article is not about who is responsible for the caste system or its history. The caste system dates back to thousands of years and we cannot put the blame on Britain or any other European colony. They took advantage of it as any occupying power would.
**/

There is no mcuh subversion of truth than this.. THe jaathi system before britishers is dynamic and had both upward and downward mobility.. Shivaji was a shudra, who rose to become a king of a great maratha empire.. and there are kshatriyas who later reduced to shudras..

The jaathi system is our social arrangement, that had a functional value.. there may be drawbacks, but it is NOT evil..

When britishers took over, they just **** up everything, and converted dynamic profession based jaathi in to a frozen racial caste system..

and you are denying this reality.. because you dont know the actual history.. because you were christian educated..

The christian schools will teach you all forms of manipulated facts about caste system.. but they wont teach you about the most brutal inquisition that their missionaries inflicted all across the world.. particularly in india, the GOA inquisition happened for more than 300 years..
But you heart wont feel anything for it, because you are educated in christian schools, and your ideals are based on western values, and more importantly, you think all those western are right..

I too was educated in such macaulite system.. and i realised it when i am grown up and discarded all those bullshits i learned about india.. i unlearned what they taught, and relearned our true history..

And i can very well challenge your views with facts..

So dont cover up british atrocities, british colonial exploitation, just by using caste system..

The jaathi setup was one of the greatest strengths of india, which enabled indian society to survive the brutal assault of the muslim invaders for 1000 years.. otherwise, you will be doing namaz five times in a mosque without even a bit of freedom to think and talk like this..

You speak and write in English. You have “xxxx@hotmail.co.uk” email ID. Your IP address points to Nottinghamshire region of United Kingdom. In spite of this you are the “Paul Revere” trying to warn Indians about Western Christian educated people, Indian English educated people, secularism and British colonialism after probably having a few rounds of Johnny Walker!! This is the height of hypocrisy.

This article is not about who is responsible for the caste system or its history. The caste system dates back to thousands of years and we cannot put the blame on Britain or any other European colony. They took advantage of it as any occupying power would.

Most Indians would agree that caste system as it exists today needs reform. Mahatma Gandhi and almost all authors of India’s constitution fought for and wanted to see this reform happen. So I am not alone and nor is it a liberal agenda.

You have written a lot of things in order to project yourself as a defender of India. But the words that you used to describe fellow Indians who may be liberal, secular, Western educated or educated in Christian schools etc. shows that you do not believe in the things that you wrote. You are just a platform orator just like most of our politicians.

I do not need to be re-educated. Education is a life long process and in that sense I will always be a student. But I definitely think you have to look at yourself in the mirror and ask why is that you have such hatred towards other human beings who hold views that are different from yours.

Its an official fact, that the word “Hinduism” is first used by Britishers, for official classification when they dominated india.. they classified all cultural and religious sects that does not resemble their abrahamic faiths in to a common identity called Hinduism..

Till they came across india, the idea of religion they had is of single god, single holy book, and prophets.. when they came to india, jainism, sikhism and budhism revolved around single personality and had their own religious books..

But the common amman workships, devi worship, muruga worship, tribal form of worship all are uncomprehensible to them.. and they found some sort of similarities to these religions, which were already interlinked by bhakthi movements, through puranic stories.. So they put everything else under the identity Hinduism..

So, we cannot even equate Hinduism with christianity or islam..
Hinduism is same as using the term “Abrahamic religions”..

Next coming to caste system.. bhagawat gita mentions about kulam and kula dharma.. jaathi is different from kulam, and has a different context..

Our traditional society was role based.. each jaathi performed a role for generations.. the social order was highly stable..

As and when required, people from one jaati detached and pursued new profession and formed a new jaati around that profession.. that’s how, we had so many jaatis..

There was no centralised repository of jaathi setup before britishers.. people of one jaathi can change their identity, by moving to a different area or different empire..

However, when britishers started surveying indian society, they could not understand the functional aspect of jaathi.. the did not understand the interdependance of the jaathi.. what they knew in european society are the tribal and racial caste groups..

So they classified each and every jaathi in to a frozen form and converted in to a racial group..

Earlier, people of particular jaathi can detach and form new jaathis.. but after british enumeration of jaathis, they could not do so.. Even if they did, officially they would referred as per former jaathis..

To say, that caste system existed even before hinduism is incorrect.. the caste system of today are entirely different from jaathi setup before britishers came..

I have done research on this, based on ground realities.. if you are willing to listen, i can explain further..

Btw, please do read dharampal’s works at http://www.dharampal.net ..
He spent around 30 years reading british archivals in london musuem, and found that most of BC and OBCs were once rulers of india..

His works were compiled in to 6 volumes and is available for download at http://www.dharampal.net under publications section..

I hope, you would atleast read the introductory section of those books..

I do read every line of what people write to me. Feedback from readers like you is what keeps this blog going. I do not take this aspect lightly at all. But I do believe in engaging the readers and challenging their beliefs.

You use the words “collection of bharatheeya religion” to describe Hinduism. I mean the same thing when I say in the article that “Hinduism after all is a group consisting of hundreds of religions and beliefs”. Please read one of my latest articles named “Hindusim: Myth vs. Reality” if you want to get a better idea of what my thoughts are about Hinduism.

I think most of us know that caste system was prevalent in India long before the term Hinduism became popular. But the various groups that practiced the caste system to varying degrees now fall under the umbrella of “Hinduism”. It is not easy to separate Hinduism from the caste system today. In the Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna talks to Arjuna and explains the origins and the real reasons for what we call today as the caste system. Bhagavad Gita is considered as “Hindu” scripture (I do know that the caste system as explained in the Gita is slightly different from what is practiced today). So we “Hindus” own the caste system (directly or indirectly) and we have the responsibility to fix it!!

Although caste system is associated with Hinduism today most Indians also know that caste system is also practiced by certain Muslim and Christian groups in India as well. So just equating Hinduism with the caste system is not fair and I understand it.

But the native people do not identify themselves as hindus..

If government asks for caste, then its the fault of the government and NOT the fault of the bharatheeya religion..

/** I have clearly stated in my article that Hinduism incorporates many other religions and philosophies. So do not put words in my mouth.
**/

Hinduism does not incorporate anything.. dont propogate anything without understanding.. its just collection of bharatheeya religion and hinduism is NOT a religion in itself..

It is budhism and sikhism which had incorporated from prevailing bharatheeya religions..

It seems you dont want to even listen to anything that opposes your view.. that’s not matured way of debating..

I am not sure where you are trying to go with your arguments. Most of what you have stated about “Hinduism” so far is well known to the average reader.

The contents of the bible may be sourced from different paganic religions that christianity engulfed.. but it has established itself as a separate religion with a single god and a single holy book.. Most christians identify themselves as christians and NOT with any paganic religions..

However, hinduism is an identity given by westerners.. The original identities of our religions are the “Sanmathams” or 6 religions, established by sankara.

Hope, you are aware of the bhakthi movements which spread as vaishnavism or shaivism and NOT as hinduism..

/** You state that an American can convert to Vaishnavism or Shaivism or secular Smarthism. This is a generous offer. I wonder when an Indian who is a tribal or belongs to SC or ST can convert to the priestly class :)
**/

An american can convert to vaishnavism or shaivism.. but they cannot become a priests. so as, any BC or MBC or even FC, leave alone SC/ST..
Every temple has its own agamas and its code of life style to be followed.. Even among brahmins, only a certain group of people can be priest in respective temples.. NOT all brahmins can become priest..

So, the very basis of argument is flawed..

However, there are divesities even in vaishnavite temples.. many SC communities have vishnu temple as their kula temple and the priests are sourced from within their community.. one SC community will not allow priest from another SC community..

Temples of Bharatheeya religions should not be confused with churches.. Church is a congregation place for public.. they want to convert everyone and hence allow any one inside whereas temples in india bleongs to different communities.. The big temples belongs to kings, and the brahmins who maintain it.. whereas other communities build their own community temples..

We have our own kula temple and its reserved only for us..

There are lot to be understood about the so called Hinduism..

Nowhere in the article have I equated Christianity and Hinduism other than the fact that they are considered as “religions” by most people. In fact in the article I state “ …. Hinduism after all is a group consisting of hundreds of religions and beliefs …“. How did you get the sense that this article shows ignorance about Hinduism?

I hope you also know that Christianity itself is a combination of many different religions and beliefs. Most of the various texts that make up the Holy Bible were at points independently used by various sects including the Jews and the gnostics.

You state that an American can convert to Vaishnavism or Shaivism or secular Smarthism. This is a generous offer. I wonder when an Indian who is a tribal or belongs to SC or ST can convert to the priestly class :)

The actual bharateeya religions are vaishnavism, shaivism, smartham, skandam, ganapathiyam and sooktham.. etc.. Adi sankara established these sanmathams (6 religions) in india.

So actually julia robert should have converted to any of these .. i think it should be shaivism, as i remember her to have visited shiva temple.. (i may be wrong)

The jaathi system are part of hindu society and NOT any religion.. infact, each jaati itself is a mini-religion, with its own god and customs. During bhakthi movements in india, vaishnavism and shaivism had followers from all castes..

So i request the american indians to have correct perspective of india, and free from the established propoganda among the academic material..

Here, caste is not a bar to convert to vaishnavism or shaivism or the secular smarthism.. once an american converts he would be called a smartha or vaishnavite or shaivite.. Its same for the jaati too.. a person when he undertakes spiritualism, is free from jaati..

Jaati is meant for functioning of the society and NOT for any religion..

I do not think that there is a spiritual leader in India today who can reform Hinduism. Most of the current ones are trying to sell something (like Yoga) or trying to divide people using strict interpretations of Hinduism (this can be said of almost all other religions in India). Religion is also for men by men for the most part. People has as much confidence in religious and spiritual leaders as much as they do in corrupt politicians!!

Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Oh! don’t even ask for a religious/spiritual leader, our country mixes religion with politics and a male dominating society makes customs which empower them even more and then, these customs are converted into religion. Its poisonous, its deadly. Whenever a religious leader comes up, he stinks of his political connection..

U know, i am currently reading the book Eat, Pray, Love by Elizabeth Gilbert, onthe base of which this movie is coming up. Because of which Julia roberts spent time in an Ashram for shooting. What I got from the book is that in the Ashram, the spiritual practices were followed, in quite pure form – meditation, prayer, dhyan, sewa. But Hindu culutre is more about temples, and pilgrimage and rituals.

Don’t know what to say about why she embraced Hinduism. But certainly, it feels good being an Indian to me.

Very relevant post,

RESTLESS
(http://myworldmyperception.blogspot.com)